“Say Hello to my little friend!” Medical malpractice is the third leading cause of death in America with an estimated 400,000 people killed each year by the negligence of doctors and other healthcare providers.
In this episode, Medical Malpractice Trial Attorneys Noah Fardo and Bill Rogel discuss the staggering statistics of deaths caused by medical errors and also discuss the taboo issue of substance abuse in the medical profession, a high-pressure field with ready access to drugs.
Our special guest, Ron Myers, an experienced patient advocate, joins and shares his personal experiences where doctors almost killed his loved ones. But for his advocacy, they may not be here today.
His advice, while unpopular and controversial as it may sound, saves lives. Learn how to protect yourself and your loved ones from serious medical errors.
We discuss the life saving advice of asking the right questions, reviewing and understanding your own medical records, and having a patient advocate present to help.
If your doctor is on drugs, it’s time to say “goodnight to the bad guy.”
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Please rise. Court is now in session.
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All rise.
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All rise.
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I strenuously object. A legal podcast brought to you by the Pittsburgh law from a Flaherty Fardo
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is now in session.
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All those seeking information about the law and legal matters affecting the people of Pittsburgh
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and the Commonwealth of Pennsylvania, half-baked opinions and a dose of self-indulgence
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are invited to attend and participate.
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I want the truth! You can't handle the truth!
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I object, your honor.
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Your honor, I object.
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You would!
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Listen, we don't know you. We don't know who you are. We don't know what you do.
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So please do not rely on anything we say as legal advice.
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I'm Noah Fardo, presiding. My wingman, attorney Bill Rugell.
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And all we're trying to do is bring a little irreverence.
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That's just what this stubby company needs! A little irreverence!
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Well, let's start the insanity.
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Call the first witness.
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Hey, good morning, Bill.
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Noah!
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No, today on I Strenuously Object, doctors on cocaine.
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You ready?
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I mean, I am prepared to strenuously object early and often on this one.
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I strenuously object that we ignore the substance abuse problem in the medical field,
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which I'm going to prove to you today exists.
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And why this is important today is we're going to actually offer advice for patients
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on how they can protect themselves because we've seen our own clients too many times
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with these doctors not ask the right questions, not do the right things.
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So without further…
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Just so we're clear, when you say we've seen our clients many times,
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you are not taking the position that we have many times
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been helping clients whose doctors were on cocaine.
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Now, just for the record, this cocaine or Mota, as we like to call it,
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is something that we have no experience in.
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You know something about cocaine?
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We know nothing about cocaine.
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I believe that's the position we take whether that's true or false.
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Well, it's absolutely true.
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And what happened to me and I just want to share with you real quick is in 1986,
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I was 14 years old and the Len bias, remember Len bias, the number one draft pick of the Boston Celtics?
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I know of Len bias.
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I'm just barely too young to actually remember Len bias.
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Yeah, Mike Q Len bias news announcement of his death.
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A local success story took a tragic turn this morning.
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Len bias, the Maryland University basketball star on his way to becoming a world champion
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Boston Celtic died of an apparent heart attack today at Leland Memorial Hospital in Prince George's County.
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Doctors say he died of a heart attack, cardiopulmonary arrest.
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But what that means or what caused that heart attack, we don't know.
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Well, Len bias, I mean, over the OD on coke.
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And I guess in the late 70s and early 80s, everybody was using cocaine.
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That's what I hear.
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But when I was 14 years old, my generation, I got lucky, was this unique generation that I think was scared shitless of it.
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And we missed it somehow.
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I don't know if it's back now or not, but that scared the living hell out of me.
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And thank God, because Billy, you know me, that would have been something very bad for me to do.
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I think I probably would have done like I do everything else in life all the way.
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That seems right.
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All right.
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What do you think?
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There is a lot of money in that white powder pop.
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We don't get into it.
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Somebody else will.
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When it comes to, you know, doctors working long hours and having to work overnight, I'm not sure that cocaine isn't a performance enhancer in this context.
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Well, it's not just cocaine.
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And we're going to get into it a little bit about it.
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You know, the main problem that I've been reading about is prescription drugs, you know, all kinds of medications that are taken.
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But first, I want to prove to you that there is a problem.
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The third leading cause of death in the United States of America right now.
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Number one is cancer.
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Number two is heart disease.
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And I might get an error and correction on that, that they're switched.
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But it's cancer, heart disease, and the third leading cause of death in the United States of America is medical errors.
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Do you believe that?
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It is an unfathomably large number.
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Well, the study from John Hopkins two years ago said somewhere between two hundred and fifty thousand to four hundred and fifty thousand people die every year from medical errors.
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And let's remember, we're undercounting that number, right?
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I mean, these are the places where the medical profession is essentially self-reporting that the medical error was at least a contributing factor, if not the predominant factor in someone's death.
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There are any number of times when an act of negligence for medical error is going to go undetected and there will be some other cause of death listed and nobody knows or has access to know that.
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That it was it was an act of medical negligence, of medical malpractice that that actually was the precipitating cause of a patient's death.
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So the number as high as the reported number is, the real number has to be even higher.
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Well, yeah, if there's hundreds of thousands of deaths reported, the reality is that the doctors, the funeral directors, the coroners, they don't want to list medical error on the death certificate.
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It may have been a medical error that led to something else. They only list the actual cause of death. And that's why it's underreported.
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So, OK, you convinced me that medical malpractice is a problem in our medical system and probably others.
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You have not convinced me that substance abuse is.
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All right. Well, let's do two things first. Number one, please again to have the Godfather back.
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My my good old friend, Ron Myers, I've known him for many years and Ronnie not only brings everyday common sense and a high level of intelligence to these to these episodes,
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but he also has some pretty unique experience where he's acted as a patient advocate and has really saved loved ones harm from mistakes that doctors made.
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So it's going to be a pretty interesting insight. I'm always happy to have the Godfather.
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Noah, just for my recollection, the last the last time Ron appeared, didn't didn't we say we were going to stop calling him the Godfather?
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Yes, Ronnie does not like being called the Godfather, but he is. And you'll see why.
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Ronnie, are you with us this morning? I am. Good morning, folks.
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We're going to bring you in on this dialogue because Bill and I have been talking recently and, you know,
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he's not convinced that doctors are snorting up cocaine before they go in the operating room.
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And I'm going to try to make a position today that there's some up doctors out there.
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This all the store, the idea for this show started with Bill and I back in 2006, where we're watching a video of a doctor in a courtroom.
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And throughout the entire video of the doctor's testimony, he's gone.
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And it's uncomfortable. There is an uncomfortable awkwardness where you knew in that courtroom,
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everybody was thinking, is this guy on cocaine? And me and Bill go out to the break.
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We didn't look at each other while it was happening. We go out to the break and we look at each other.
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We both accept that pretty much at the same time. Was he on cocaine? What is going on?
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So that was our first idea that questioned whether a credentialed board certified physician could be put in white powder up his nose.
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Bill, you recall that? Very, very distinctly.
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I've never been more sure in my life that someone was on cocaine.
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Oh, and that's including people who like who I know were on cocaine because they told me.
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OK, so now we agree hundreds of thousands of people are getting killed.
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You now agree with me that we have firsthand knowledge that we think it's more likely than not that this doctor snorting cocaine.
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Ronnie, what's your initial take? You think doctors are using cocaine?
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Yeah, without a doubt, but I am shocked by the earlier stat. Can you repeat that?
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Yeah, it's your intro. John Hopkins said between now and I'll make sure I get the numbers correct.
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It's somewhere between two hundred and fifty thousand to four hundred and forty thousand people died
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in a single year as a result of medical malpractice errors.
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Wow. So maybe this doctor we saw, Bill, was just an isolated incident.
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But then a few years after that, I hear about this jerk that I knew at school.
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I don't want to cause any names or anything like that, but I hear that he's a surgeon practicing in some hospital.
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And not naming names is a sound decision from a liability perspective.
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And I always say that gossip is the devil's tongue.
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So I don't necessarily want to gossip per se.
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Gossip is the devil's telephone. Best to just hang up.
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But, you know, the conversation that I overheard was how the surgeon was, oh, my goodness, he's using cocaine all the time.
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It helps him focus. He thinks it's the greatest thing in the world.
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So now I got not only visual confirmation from my career, now I got verbal confirmation and it's rumors here say maybe they didn't like them.
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I don't know. I think they were friends with them. And I think the story is true.
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But I got a couple of instances and I got hundreds of thousands of people dying.
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So I think there's a problem. And I started to research it.
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Do you think there's a problem in the health field with substance abuse?
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It depends how you're going to define problem.
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I mean, assuredly, given the number of medical professionals there are, and this includes doctors and this includes nurses.
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Among all of those people, of course, some of them are going to have drug addiction.
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Of course, some of them are going to have problems and there will be a non-zero number of times that it adversely affects their job performance.
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But in the grand scheme of things, I would expect that the amount of substance abuse in the medical field,
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because these are supposed to be people who are educated about the medical consequences of these sorts of decisions,
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that there would be less predominance of drug abuse or addiction problems among professional medical providers than among the population at large.
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Yeah. So you start looking at the American addiction centers and you start looking at some of the public stats that are out there about do doctors have a substance abuse?
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They say that one in ten every day of Americans at one point or another in their life will have a substance abuse problem.
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Now, you agree with me that the health care industry is understaffed right now.
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A thousand percent. Ronnie, you agree as well?
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Absolutely. So we have an understaffed medical field.
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Would you agree with me that those are stressful professions?
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Agree. Sure, of course. OK.
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The Center American Addiction Center stated that somewhere their estimation is that because of these stress factors,
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because of the understaffed medical facilities, that they believe it's somewhere between the 13 to 15 percent rate range of substance abuse in the medical field.
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OK, hold on. This came from something called the American Addiction Center, as you said?
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There are studies online. This is the American Addiction Center.
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It's a recognized addiction agency that estimates in their studies 13 to 15 percent.
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Experienced substance abuse during their career.
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OK, and does that same entity give us an estimate for what they think the the occurrence rate is in the rest of the population?
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Yep, it's one in ten. OK, so that's the same place that gave you one in ten.
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Well, I don't know if it's the same. You're not mixing and matching on us here.
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I may be, but the point is it's not unrealistic to believe that a understaffed stressful profession like the medical field is experiencing a higher percentage than the main society.
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I strenuously object.
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OK, Ronnie, what are you drawing that conclusion based upon the scant evidence thus far provided?
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I know that you can't put anything on the Internet that isn't true.
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Excuse me, is this sarcasm 101? No, it's Lamaze class from MNM Arthur.
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Oh, OK, I'm kidding.
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And far be it from me to question the research methodologies of whatever the addiction center is.
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But this isn't quite enough to get us over the goal line here as far as convincing me that there's a real a real and distinct problem in the medical field here.
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Yeah, Ronnie, any insight?
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You know, just on the face of it, as a layman looking at the drug problem in America, I would say I don't know why anyone in the medical profession would be outside the norm in terms of drug use.
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And in fact, I would argue or I would tend to think that they may be more susceptible to drug use.
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I would say the same. Now, if we're speaking specifically of cocaine, maybe not, because coke is not something that's readily accessible.
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But if you're talking about drugs they have, they can get their hands on a lot of drugs.
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And I know a lot of doctors that use a lot of drugs.
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Drugs is very business.
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You know, the godfather stuck getting godfathered just so we're clear here.
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Yeah. So, you know, the other thing where this comes from a little bit, Bill, and why I want to talk about it, because I think there is things there are specific things that patients can do to protect themselves, to protect their loved ones.
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There's a patient safety action item list that they can do.
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But here's where some of this comes from me is, you know, we have these cases against doctors that we've tried over the years.
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And any time you go into a medical malpractice case, both parties are supposed to walk into the courtroom and it's supposed to be an even playing field.
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You know, we're going to start from ground zero and inevitably, and tell me if you feel differently, Bill.
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But I always feel like the plaintiff, the injured person starts a touchdown or two behind because this doctor is in a white coat and doctors are carrying people that give their lives for the health and safety of other people.
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How can you be suing this doctor?
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Don't you feel like you're down to touchdowns when you walk into a courtroom on a med mal case?
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So here is a place where I will definitely agree with you.
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I don't know about I don't think there are any good or reliable studies telling me exactly how much drug or other addiction issues there are in the medical profession versus the population at large.
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I'm just not convinced by what's out there.
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I am convinced of two things.
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One of those is the thing that Ron was just talking about as far as the nature of the industry.
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Long hours, overnight shifts, a lot of stress under staffing and ready access to drugs.
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If you want to do that, there are structural elements in place that make it plausible or make it easier for there to be a problem.
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And look, if doctors are no more prone to addiction than anyone else in the population, that's still not good enough, right?
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If there are structural things that are pushing doctors and medical providers into substance abuse, those happen to be the same structural things that are causing there to be this giant amount of medical malpractice.
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The doctors are too busy.
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The nurses are too busy.
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We're way overstaffed or understaffed.
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And it's a super stressful position.
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Well, yeah, I mean, it's super stressful.
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And, you know, Ronnie, if you're on a juror, do you look at a doctor?
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Do you give him that benefit of the doubt naturally?
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Because I think most people do.
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I think the general population would.
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However, just based on my experience and knowing who I know and my network, I don't.
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It's like the doctor is an expert to me.
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Yes, in medicine, for sure.
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But in general life, they make really bad mistakes and they could make mistakes at work also.
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Yeah, I think of the old Depeche Mode.
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People are people.
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So why should it be?
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I don't know if you remember that from the early 80s.
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Yeah, so I don't hold them in any higher regard than I would, you know, anyone else.
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You know, the garbage man, the garbage man knows more about collecting garbage than the
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doctor.
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The doctor knows more about, you know, practicing medicine than I want to give full credit to
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the Godfather here, because I don't think from talking to jurors in the past that his
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position is the majority position.
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I mean, one, in a lot of the cases when we're talking about medicine, it is still a problem
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that people are naturally deferential to doctors.
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But I actually think that there are a couple positions in society, and doctors are one
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of them and police officers are another of them, that when they're testifying as witnesses,
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literally based upon their profession and their position, jurors are just more inclined
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to believe them.
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And again, this was the second thing that I would agree with, irrespective of the precise
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proportions of substance abuse, it is important to remember these doctors are people too.
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They make mistakes like everyone else does.
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When they make mistakes, the consequences are literally deadly.
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But they're still just human beings.
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And one of the things that makes these mistakes more problematic, and, you know, I feel like
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this is the disclaimer of all of all aspersions that one might cast, I'm not saying this about
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all doctors.
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In addition to the fact that jurors have a tendency to believe doctors, there are certainly
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any number of doctors who themselves are in denial about the fact that doctors too can
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make mistakes.
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They have a God complex.
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I'm a God.
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You're a God.
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I'm a God, not the God.
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And look, they save lives, right?
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Doctors save lives, and that's great.
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And doctors also make mistakes.
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And based on the numbers we're hearing, those mistakes are killing hundreds of thousands
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of people every year.
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And I'm not here to blame doctors who have substance abuse problems.
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I'm here to say, look, there's hospitals and insurance and all of these other systems that
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are in place.
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And those systems need to be better at not putting our medical professionals in that
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sort of position.
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You know, that really is where the energies are drawn.
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Getting the people who need help help.
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Putting in structures in place to prevent the mistakes instead of what exists now, which
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are not structures to prevent the mistakes, but are structures to kind of cover up and
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obfuscate those mistakes so that lawyers can't find them.
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Because right now, a lot of the charting and recordkeeping procedures followed by the medical
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profession are basically designed to avoid that kind of accountability, specifically
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accountability in the legal system for those mistakes.
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And that's kind of doubling the harm to the patients, right?
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The patient in question is already injured by this act of medical neglect, and then the
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patient is doubly injured because when the patient gets their chart, the chart is, to
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put it mildly, putting a positive spin on the care that was provided and looking for
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any and all excuses to blame the patient in question for what happened.
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My goal here is to empower the patients, right?
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To help the patients.
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You know, we talked about being down and giving the doctors the benefit of the doubt.
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Nobody would think, what juror would think, oh, this doctor may have snorted cocaine prior
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to testifying.
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Nobody would even think that.
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But the thing you said earlier also is the God complex.
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Doctors have big egos.
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If you're looking for God, he was in operating room number two on November 17th and he doesn't
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like to be second guessed.
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We've seen it.
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Some doctors can be very arrogant.
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You ask me if I have a God complex?
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I am God.
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So my take on the God complex is that people that have a God complex are more likely to
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think that they can take drugs without getting caught, without any repercussions.
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But let's say you're a patient and you have a surgery any morning time and the doctor
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just seems wired.
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He doesn't seem right to you.
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What do you do?
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Can you do anything?
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What do you do?
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Ronnie, what do you do?
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I've never been in that type of situation.
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But if it's just a routine kind of like checkup, I would just be like, hey, doc, how are you
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today?
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How are you feeling?
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Right.
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But if this guy is about to prep me for surgery, I'm pulling the fire alarm or something.
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This shit ain't happening.
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Number one, and I think this is really solid advice, if that situation happened and it's
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extreme and it's not the practice pointers I'm going to give for patients.
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But if every fiber in your own body is telling you that something's wrong, you do not let
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somebody operate on you.
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And I'm not giving medical advice.
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I'm giving common sense advice.
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This isn't legal advice.
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This is common sense.
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You have to trust your instincts to a certain extent.
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Right?
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Well, yeah.
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And let me start running through some of the things that patients can actually do.
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And they cross over a little bit.
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But here are some of the basics of what patients really need to do that most of our clients
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don't do.
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And the first one is simple.
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It's ask questions.
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We're so trusting of doctors that the dialogue is them telling us.
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And very few patients feel emboldened enough or intellectual enough or whatever the reason
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is to ask questions about what's being done, what's wrong with them, their medical condition.
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Do you guys think patients ask enough questions?
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What have you seen, Bill?
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Patients often don't ask enough questions.
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They don't want to be seen as a problem patient.
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Right?
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Everyone's kind of afraid that you're going to get the medical version of someone working
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at the restaurant who spits on your cheeseburger.
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And so they don't want to be a problem patient for this doctor.
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And tone matters.
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You don't need to be questioning in a way that indicates you don't think the doctor
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knows what the doctor's doing, but ask her questions.
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Right?
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Figure that out.
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Ask about what the procedure is.
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I'll tell you this.
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I've had a number of times where we've had clients who very specifically insisted to
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the doctor, hey, look, I do not want a resident touching me.
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Right?
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Because I want the doctor to perform the procedure.
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The resident can watch and assist, but I don't want the resident doing any cutting.
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And that's fine.
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I don't know statistically how more or less likely the care is to be bad based upon the
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resident or the actual physician doing the care.
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I'll tell you what, I've never heard someone tell me they ask and everyone should, which
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is ask the doctor when they're scheduling you, whether it's a doctor or whether it's
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the staff at the place, if it's an outpatient surgery center, no one ever asks about the
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schedule.
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Okay.
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You have me scheduled for surgery at 830.
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Is that the first surgery of the day?
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Is it the fifth surgery of the day?
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How long before that surgery is this doctor in another surgery?
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How long after?
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What's the schedule look like?
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You know, and I don't know that the answer is always the same.
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Yeah.
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I mean, I don't think most patients will ask those questions, but the questions you should
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ask are, doctor, what's your schedule?
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What's your surgery schedule that day?
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Doctor, who will be assisting you that day?
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Is there any other doctors that are going to be operating on me?
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If there are, what are the difficult portions of the procedure?
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Will you be doing those or will the other doctor being those?
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And I think it's always a good idea.
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And people aren't afraid to do it because they want, like you said, spitting on the
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hamburgers are great analogy because they want the doctor not to be like, well, fuck
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this person.
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I don't want to, oh yeah.
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Okay.
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Or they don't want to alter the physician's mindset in any way.
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But I think on a morning of surgery, you need to look at the doctor, you need to examine
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the doctor and say, doctor, how are you feeling today?
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Are you up for this?
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Are you ready for this?
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Because you're really a team in it.
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Don't you think Ronnie?
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Without a doubt.
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And also recognize that doctors are people, they're human.
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And just like if you were out at a happy hour and your, your, uh, compadre was, uh, your,
359
00:25:02,400 --> 00:25:06,620
your ride and he's, and he's looking like he's a little bit inebriated, right?
360
00:25:06,620 --> 00:25:08,800
You're not going to take a ride with that guy.
361
00:25:08,800 --> 00:25:09,800
Okay.
362
00:25:09,800 --> 00:25:10,800
Same with your doctor, right?
363
00:25:10,800 --> 00:25:16,280
If he's coming in like with the sniffles and whatnot, his eyes are all glassy red, take
364
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a pause.
365
00:25:17,280 --> 00:25:18,280
You know what I mean?
366
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You don't have to get surgery, right?
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You really don't.
368
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Unless it's an emergency, right?
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Right.
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You may even that's different.
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So we're not talking about emergency surgery.
372
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You can reschedule, right?
373
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Exactly.
374
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Reschedule.
375
00:25:29,320 --> 00:25:33,440
And I would probably then go get a second opinion elsewhere.
376
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If that's your concern.
377
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That's why you're the godfather.
378
00:25:36,080 --> 00:25:40,920
See, that's why they call him the godfather.
379
00:25:40,920 --> 00:25:42,600
Number one is ask questions.
380
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And number two is get a second opinion.
381
00:25:44,680 --> 00:25:52,160
You have time between the surgery being scheduled, what you need and getting a second opinion.
382
00:25:52,160 --> 00:25:53,240
I'm not saying getting a second.
383
00:25:53,240 --> 00:25:54,800
I don't give medical advice.
384
00:25:54,800 --> 00:25:57,240
I'm not a doctor.
385
00:25:57,240 --> 00:26:00,160
I'm not Dr. Van Nostrand.
386
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How long have you been doing this, Dr. Van Nostrand?
387
00:26:03,120 --> 00:26:06,560
Oh, long, long time.
388
00:26:06,560 --> 00:26:14,800
But a lot of the times, especially with severe diagnosis, we get second opinions on cars,
389
00:26:14,800 --> 00:26:15,800
Ronnie, right?
390
00:26:15,800 --> 00:26:21,360
Did you ever get a second opinion on whether or not you need a new alternator or what it
391
00:26:21,360 --> 00:26:22,680
is?
392
00:26:22,680 --> 00:26:28,000
People don't often get second opinions on diagnosis, as though this doctor who may or
393
00:26:28,000 --> 00:26:33,880
may not be snorting cocaine, which is a possibility, is telling you that the diagnosis is correct.
394
00:26:33,880 --> 00:26:39,000
I mean, it sounds like abject fear mongering, but it's also accurate.
395
00:26:39,000 --> 00:26:43,800
I don't suggest that our listeners start going into every meeting with every doctor the rest
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00:26:43,800 --> 00:26:50,200
of their lives trying to ascertain, hey, is this doctor on cocaine today?
397
00:26:50,200 --> 00:26:56,240
But using the same common sense measures you would use to protect yourself in other situations
398
00:26:56,240 --> 00:26:59,960
should also be used when it comes to doctors, right?
399
00:26:59,960 --> 00:27:05,360
Don't be so deferential to the doctors and so trusting of the doctors that you just kind
400
00:27:05,360 --> 00:27:08,520
of write them a blank check and shut off your judgment.
401
00:27:08,520 --> 00:27:13,100
I do want to do a little fear mongering, Bill, because I think we're limiting in this conversation
402
00:27:13,100 --> 00:27:14,680
the cocaine and sniffles.
403
00:27:14,680 --> 00:27:22,520
But these medical professionals have access to the best designer drugs on the planet,
404
00:27:22,520 --> 00:27:23,520
okay?
405
00:27:23,520 --> 00:27:28,080
And I know a lot of them that experiment with a lot of these designer drugs.
406
00:27:28,080 --> 00:27:33,320
So yes, if you see someone that is maybe slurring or looks like they're not quite there, I would
407
00:27:33,320 --> 00:27:35,720
take a pause, literally take a pause.
408
00:27:35,720 --> 00:27:36,960
Yeah, thank you, Ronnie.
409
00:27:36,960 --> 00:27:42,140
When I keep saying cocaine or cocaine, yeah, as they did in Scarface or mota, as they did
410
00:27:42,140 --> 00:27:47,540
in the movie Blow, I'm really using it because it's a catchphrase for the entire substance
411
00:27:47,540 --> 00:27:49,320
abuse problem, so to speak.
412
00:27:49,320 --> 00:27:50,960
Do I really think it's cocaine?
413
00:27:50,960 --> 00:27:52,540
I don't know.
414
00:27:52,540 --> 00:27:54,120
Is cocaine still popular?
415
00:27:54,120 --> 00:27:56,920
I guess among people who do cocaine, it is.
416
00:27:56,920 --> 00:28:02,960
We don't, it seems like there's more of a prescription based drug addiction in America.
417
00:28:02,960 --> 00:28:05,400
The opioids, the opioids, right?
418
00:28:05,400 --> 00:28:08,520
The Oxycontin and all of that shit.
419
00:28:08,520 --> 00:28:10,400
So I literally, I want to interject here.
420
00:28:10,400 --> 00:28:18,000
I literally watched a doctor in my neighborhood on my block ruin his life because he was addicted
421
00:28:18,000 --> 00:28:19,000
to opioids.
422
00:28:19,000 --> 00:28:23,600
He was getting them from his hospital and it got to the point where he broke into our
423
00:28:23,600 --> 00:28:27,120
local pharmacy and was arrested, right?
424
00:28:27,120 --> 00:28:32,560
This happens to people and sometimes it is, it happens to doctors.
425
00:28:32,560 --> 00:28:35,320
So ask questions, seek a second opinion.
426
00:28:35,320 --> 00:28:41,280
The third best advice for patient safety is to review and know your medical records.
427
00:28:41,280 --> 00:28:43,400
It's something that very few patients do.
428
00:28:43,400 --> 00:28:47,260
And what that means is you can be told one thing in your visit.
429
00:28:47,260 --> 00:28:50,720
It's another to read what is going on with you.
430
00:28:50,720 --> 00:28:55,360
And I would even say not from a legal or medical perspective, but I would say use the internet.
431
00:28:55,360 --> 00:28:59,560
Read about what they're saying, what the diagnosis are, what the symptoms are, what the risks
432
00:28:59,560 --> 00:29:00,560
are.
433
00:29:00,560 --> 00:29:02,960
You can read what the risks of surgery, and then you can use that information, whether
434
00:29:02,960 --> 00:29:06,960
it's true or not, to ask questions to the doctor, right?
435
00:29:06,960 --> 00:29:12,360
So they even say for, there's a patient bill of rights out there on various websites and
436
00:29:12,360 --> 00:29:17,380
they even say that you should download the app on your phone.
437
00:29:17,380 --> 00:29:23,200
So you have access to your records and are able to ask questions about the records.
438
00:29:23,200 --> 00:29:27,480
Do you think either you guys think that patients actually review their medical records when
439
00:29:27,480 --> 00:29:28,480
treating?
440
00:29:28,480 --> 00:29:35,280
I'm not even sure they really meaningfully can, by which I mean all of these places have,
441
00:29:35,280 --> 00:29:39,360
well not all of them, but a lot of medical providers now, they give you kind of online
442
00:29:39,360 --> 00:29:43,500
portal access to your quote unquote medical records.
443
00:29:43,500 --> 00:29:49,600
As someone who practices in medical malpractice, as someone who reviews medical records, who
444
00:29:49,600 --> 00:29:53,960
requests them formally and reviews them, there are many things in the medical records that
445
00:29:53,960 --> 00:30:00,680
we formally request that simply are not put up in those portals.
446
00:30:00,680 --> 00:30:05,920
Be conscientious and knowledgeable about your own care and review what is there, but remember
447
00:30:05,920 --> 00:30:11,120
too, especially if something goes wrong or you're curious about what happened in there,
448
00:30:11,120 --> 00:30:15,720
anything that is in your chart is not in your web portal.
449
00:30:15,720 --> 00:30:17,440
Yeah, let me follow up on that Bill.
450
00:30:17,440 --> 00:30:23,880
So Ronnie, I want to see if you know this, you're everyday Ron, you're the godfather.
451
00:30:23,880 --> 00:30:25,600
Isn't that contradictory in nature?
452
00:30:25,600 --> 00:30:27,960
An everyday guy and the godfather?
453
00:30:27,960 --> 00:30:31,960
Okay, are you on OxyCode?
454
00:30:31,960 --> 00:30:32,960
Move on.
455
00:30:32,960 --> 00:30:35,720
Just coffee this morning.
456
00:30:35,720 --> 00:30:37,760
Here's the question I have for you.
457
00:30:37,760 --> 00:30:44,120
UPMC, Allegheny Health Network, they give you an app, the MyChart app, which allows
458
00:30:44,120 --> 00:30:48,840
you to look on you and they act like they're involving you in your medical care.
459
00:30:48,840 --> 00:30:54,540
Do you as a patient, a human being, everyday Ron, do you think that that app would give
460
00:30:54,540 --> 00:30:59,400
you access to some of your medical records or all of your medical records?
461
00:30:59,400 --> 00:31:01,400
That is an interesting question.
462
00:31:01,400 --> 00:31:09,960
I'm experiencing this right now so I could speak from very recent experience.
463
00:31:09,960 --> 00:31:16,160
Someone in my life right now is going through some issues, medical issues, and we're seeing
464
00:31:16,160 --> 00:31:21,380
different doctors and we're being sent to specialists for different care, scans and
465
00:31:21,380 --> 00:31:22,880
things of that nature.
466
00:31:22,880 --> 00:31:25,060
And no, none of this is pulled together.
467
00:31:25,060 --> 00:31:31,380
So when we go to the primary, and these doctors are all in the same network and we still keep
468
00:31:31,380 --> 00:31:34,720
them, we can't get the complete medical file pulled together.
469
00:31:34,720 --> 00:31:38,560
And so you don't know what you don't know as a patient.
470
00:31:38,560 --> 00:31:42,220
So you don't know the questions to ask when you're in front of different doctors.
471
00:31:42,220 --> 00:31:45,800
So we're saying like, well, why can't we talk about this?
472
00:31:45,800 --> 00:31:49,600
Well, that happened over in this other care center.
473
00:31:49,600 --> 00:31:51,400
They have that file.
474
00:31:51,400 --> 00:31:52,980
It's a difficult thing.
475
00:31:52,980 --> 00:31:58,000
It's a really difficult thing to navigate when you're not in the know.
476
00:31:58,000 --> 00:31:59,000
Let me add this.
477
00:31:59,000 --> 00:32:04,120
I think, and I'm guessing this is a place you were going to go, but I want to go there
478
00:32:04,120 --> 00:32:08,240
now is one of the most important things you can do.
479
00:32:08,240 --> 00:32:12,520
And this is especially true if you're talking about getting a surgery or being in a situation
480
00:32:12,520 --> 00:32:18,520
where you're going to be not fully in possession of your capacities or even if you're fully
481
00:32:18,520 --> 00:32:22,520
conscious not going to have the energy to really kind of fight is to have someone there
482
00:32:22,520 --> 00:32:27,360
with you at the hospital, at the surgery center, wherever you are, someone there to be your
483
00:32:27,360 --> 00:32:31,480
advocate to look at what drugs are coming in and take notes of what drugs are being
484
00:32:31,480 --> 00:32:36,240
given to you or what the doctors are saying to you or what pain you're describing to the
485
00:32:36,240 --> 00:32:44,040
doctors because, you know, I can't tell you how many times, you know, we've had calls
486
00:32:44,040 --> 00:32:48,320
or consultations from clients and it's especially true all the time.
487
00:32:48,320 --> 00:32:51,080
We get this where someone has a nurse in the family, right?
488
00:32:51,080 --> 00:32:55,680
So you know, one of my six children is a nurse.
489
00:32:55,680 --> 00:32:58,360
That child is the one who was at the hospital with me most of the time.
490
00:32:58,360 --> 00:33:02,880
And that nurse caught some mistake that was going to happen or went and followed up and
491
00:33:02,880 --> 00:33:05,480
asked the right question to make sure something didn't go wrong.
492
00:33:05,480 --> 00:33:10,620
And I'm left saying, you know, your, your mom or dad is really lucky to have you because
493
00:33:10,620 --> 00:33:15,080
if you weren't there to catch that mistake, no one would have and it might've killed them.
494
00:33:15,080 --> 00:33:16,080
It's scary.
495
00:33:16,080 --> 00:33:17,080
It's scary.
496
00:33:17,080 --> 00:33:20,440
How many times we've seen that it's, it has saved many, many lives.
497
00:33:20,440 --> 00:33:25,500
And what we don't know is how many lives have been lost because nobody's there.
498
00:33:25,500 --> 00:33:27,840
And you can only do what you can do, right?
499
00:33:27,840 --> 00:33:31,020
As far as the people in your life and their schedule.
500
00:33:31,020 --> 00:33:35,000
But factor that in when you're scheduling your surgeries and your time in the hospital,
501
00:33:35,000 --> 00:33:38,800
schedule it at a time when family or friends or someone can be there, do as much as you
502
00:33:38,800 --> 00:33:44,520
can on your end as a patient to make sure that someone can be there because when you're
503
00:33:44,520 --> 00:33:48,000
recovering from a surgery, you're sleeping a bunch, you're feeling weak.
504
00:33:48,000 --> 00:33:53,100
You're just not in a position to go bang on the nurses' stand for, for the care you need.
505
00:33:53,100 --> 00:33:54,100
Was that wrong?
506
00:33:54,100 --> 00:33:55,760
Should I not have done that?
507
00:33:55,760 --> 00:33:56,760
Yeah.
508
00:33:56,760 --> 00:34:01,840
I mean, look, number one is ask questions, seek a second opinion, know your medical records
509
00:34:01,840 --> 00:34:04,000
in and out, even if you have to request the hard copies.
510
00:34:04,000 --> 00:34:09,440
But number four, Bill, and you hit the nail on the head is, is you bring it, bring a qualified
511
00:34:09,440 --> 00:34:16,000
advocate because looking at your own condition subjectively versus somebody else being able
512
00:34:16,000 --> 00:34:20,600
to hear what's going on objectively is a huge advantage for the patient.
513
00:34:20,600 --> 00:34:22,600
Ronnie, you agree?
514
00:34:22,600 --> 00:34:23,600
Absolutely.
515
00:34:23,600 --> 00:34:29,080
And I'm going to try to be very concise here.
516
00:34:29,080 --> 00:34:35,880
One of my children was diagnosed with a cancer and he was, he went through chemotherapy treatment
517
00:34:35,880 --> 00:34:38,680
for six months in a hospital.
518
00:34:38,680 --> 00:34:45,600
The things that we saw and avoided throughout that treatment, and I want to say he's a hundred
519
00:34:45,600 --> 00:34:47,880
percent by the way, healthy today.
520
00:34:47,880 --> 00:34:54,920
And it was nothing short of a miracle, the medical care that he was given.
521
00:34:54,920 --> 00:34:58,600
And I'm a hundred percent happy.
522
00:34:58,600 --> 00:35:04,640
However, there was, there was so much action and so many different groups coming in and
523
00:35:04,640 --> 00:35:10,600
out of his room and there were pretty bad mistakes made, nothing life threatening, but
524
00:35:10,600 --> 00:35:17,320
you know, medicines given at the wrong time, medicines, you know, withheld and things of
525
00:35:17,320 --> 00:35:18,320
that nature.
526
00:35:18,320 --> 00:35:21,960
You, and I want to also give another example.
527
00:35:21,960 --> 00:35:28,160
There was one point like he, my son was so doped up on not just the chemo, but also the
528
00:35:28,160 --> 00:35:32,320
pain meds that there were times where there are six doctors literally standing at the
529
00:35:32,320 --> 00:35:36,600
foot of his bed and he is nodding off in front of them saying, I apologize.
530
00:35:36,600 --> 00:35:37,600
I apologize.
531
00:35:37,600 --> 00:35:40,120
Like he can't even understand what they're saying to him.
532
00:35:40,120 --> 00:35:41,720
He is just out.
533
00:35:41,720 --> 00:35:44,520
And luckily my ex-wife and I were standing there.
534
00:35:44,520 --> 00:35:45,800
We communicated.
535
00:35:45,800 --> 00:35:49,960
We wrote stuff down and we really advocated for his care.
536
00:35:49,960 --> 00:35:53,240
And there were mistakes made generally.
537
00:35:53,240 --> 00:35:57,840
I guess a point that I want to try to make and I'm regularly left trying to make to people
538
00:35:57,840 --> 00:36:02,560
that they understand in other parts of their life, good drivers sometimes still make mistakes,
539
00:36:02,560 --> 00:36:03,560
right?
540
00:36:03,560 --> 00:36:07,080
I can be a good driver and it doesn't mean that I don't run a stop sign one day because
541
00:36:07,080 --> 00:36:08,880
I don't see it.
542
00:36:08,880 --> 00:36:10,640
Good doctors make mistakes.
543
00:36:10,640 --> 00:36:15,840
It is possible for Ron and for other people to say what you just said, I am happy with
544
00:36:15,840 --> 00:36:17,160
my medical care.
545
00:36:17,160 --> 00:36:19,220
My doctors did great work.
546
00:36:19,220 --> 00:36:23,840
And also there were a bunch of times where mistakes were made or could have been made.
547
00:36:23,840 --> 00:36:31,040
If I'm a professional driver, if I'm in the car 10 hours a day, I can be really good for
548
00:36:31,040 --> 00:36:32,200
week straight.
549
00:36:32,200 --> 00:36:36,400
But if I make a mistake and that mistake kills somebody, I should still be held responsible
550
00:36:36,400 --> 00:36:37,400
for that.
551
00:36:37,400 --> 00:36:38,400
It doesn't make me a bad person, right?
552
00:36:38,400 --> 00:36:43,960
It's not a moral referendum on you that you made a mistake as a driver and caused an accident,
553
00:36:43,960 --> 00:36:48,480
but the system is in place to ensure compensation to the person injured by that mistake.
554
00:36:48,480 --> 00:36:51,840
That's exactly the way that medical malpractice is supposed to work.
555
00:36:51,840 --> 00:36:57,280
I am not saying, look, we've had some bad doctors, but I'm not saying when I file a
556
00:36:57,280 --> 00:37:03,140
lawsuit against the doctor that that doctor is a bad doctor or a bad person or deserves
557
00:37:03,140 --> 00:37:06,960
some sort of moral approprium for having done wrong.
558
00:37:06,960 --> 00:37:09,960
All I'm saying is, doc, you made a mistake.
559
00:37:09,960 --> 00:37:11,200
And I'm even saying more, Bill.
560
00:37:11,200 --> 00:37:14,320
I'm saying, look, you may be a caring human being, but I'm not convinced you didn't do
561
00:37:14,320 --> 00:37:16,400
cocaine last night.
562
00:37:16,400 --> 00:37:17,400
That's true.
563
00:37:17,400 --> 00:37:19,160
That is what you're saying.
564
00:37:19,160 --> 00:37:20,840
That is not what I'm saying.
565
00:37:20,840 --> 00:37:21,840
Yeah.
566
00:37:21,840 --> 00:37:24,000
Well, let's try to bring this home among the three of us here.
567
00:37:24,000 --> 00:37:29,320
I mean, I think the number is shocking when you talk about as high as 400, half a million
568
00:37:29,320 --> 00:37:31,040
people a year.
569
00:37:31,040 --> 00:37:36,200
I mean, how in the hell is nobody talking about this across the country?
570
00:37:36,200 --> 00:37:38,600
You know, how many people died in the Ukraine so far, Ronnie?
571
00:37:38,600 --> 00:37:42,440
How many people do you think have died in the Ukraine war?
572
00:37:42,440 --> 00:37:44,600
Three thousand.
573
00:37:44,600 --> 00:37:48,860
You know, estimates are as low as two thousand as high as ten thousand, if they're not counting.
574
00:37:48,860 --> 00:37:52,260
But they like you Google it and it's coming up two thousand right now.
575
00:37:52,260 --> 00:38:00,220
We're talking about five hundred thousand people dying from medical errors and nobody's
576
00:38:00,220 --> 00:38:01,720
talking about it.
577
00:38:01,720 --> 00:38:07,880
I haven't you know, the last major article that I saw when I researched it was two years
578
00:38:07,880 --> 00:38:11,360
ago, you know, a CNBC article or something like that.
579
00:38:11,360 --> 00:38:13,580
So it's just it's just insane to me.
580
00:38:13,580 --> 00:38:16,820
And so I hopefully we help some people learn how to protect themselves.
581
00:38:16,820 --> 00:38:20,320
And that's where I want to ask you guys your final opinions as well.
582
00:38:20,320 --> 00:38:27,140
It's hard to ask questions, but you got to ask questions, patient advocates, second opinions.
583
00:38:27,140 --> 00:38:28,140
What else?
584
00:38:28,140 --> 00:38:33,680
What else do you guys think you can help patients out there who are trying to avoid the pitfalls
585
00:38:33,680 --> 00:38:37,040
of maybe somebody not performing surgery at their best?
586
00:38:37,040 --> 00:38:39,360
I would say this.
587
00:38:39,360 --> 00:38:44,480
Most doctors appointments that I experience are kind of rushed or they are rushed, not
588
00:38:44,480 --> 00:38:47,560
kind of, you know, they they they need to see a lot of patients.
589
00:38:47,560 --> 00:38:48,560
They're overwhelmed.
590
00:38:48,560 --> 00:38:50,260
They have too much on their plate.
591
00:38:50,260 --> 00:38:53,640
I always say to the doctor, like, listen, I'm not a medical expert.
592
00:38:53,640 --> 00:38:57,160
I might be, you know, I have different skill set than you.
593
00:38:57,160 --> 00:39:01,440
Just can you speak as plainly as a layman to me?
594
00:39:01,440 --> 00:39:06,040
Tell me what's happening and then we can move on and you can get about your day.
595
00:39:06,040 --> 00:39:12,160
There's no reason for you to feel rushed and not know what your treatment is or is going
596
00:39:12,160 --> 00:39:13,160
to be.
597
00:39:13,160 --> 00:39:14,160
Right.
598
00:39:14,160 --> 00:39:15,160
Yeah, that's good.
599
00:39:15,160 --> 00:39:16,160
Yeah.
600
00:39:16,160 --> 00:39:18,040
I mean, I guess jumping off that, right.
601
00:39:18,040 --> 00:39:22,640
We've all had the frustrating experience of sitting in the waiting room for 45 minutes
602
00:39:22,640 --> 00:39:27,140
waiting to get called in because everyone's so overbooked and busy.
603
00:39:27,140 --> 00:39:33,160
If you have had to wait and be patient when it's your time to talk to the doctors and
604
00:39:33,160 --> 00:39:38,940
the medical professionals, don't be all worried about the delicate genius.
605
00:39:38,940 --> 00:39:42,900
That time is your time and it's the only chance you're going to get to make sure you understand
606
00:39:42,900 --> 00:39:47,460
what's happening to you and who is going to be operating on you.
607
00:39:47,460 --> 00:39:52,220
You know, an extra three or four minutes to to reach that level of comfort.
608
00:39:52,220 --> 00:39:56,260
It's not your job to solve their scheduling problems.
609
00:39:56,260 --> 00:40:02,040
It's your job to make sure that you have taken what measures you can to protect yourself.
610
00:40:02,040 --> 00:40:05,500
Hopefully we've helped some patients out there today.
611
00:40:05,500 --> 00:40:09,960
And I'll tell you what, Bill, on a separate episode, we will examine, do I have a medical
612
00:40:09,960 --> 00:40:11,520
malpractice case?
613
00:40:11,520 --> 00:40:15,400
The three basics of understanding whether or not you have a malpractice case.
614
00:40:15,400 --> 00:40:19,760
So I'll be interested to talk about that and I'll be interested to have the Godfather back
615
00:40:19,760 --> 00:40:21,920
too because I love his insight.
616
00:40:21,920 --> 00:40:27,640
If you think that you have been affected by medical malpractice, you think that what you're
617
00:40:27,640 --> 00:40:32,500
dealing with or loved one is dealing with is the result of not necessarily a doctor
618
00:40:32,500 --> 00:40:36,400
on drugs, but maybe that but some sort of medical error.
619
00:40:36,400 --> 00:40:40,440
Please don't wait for our next episode to drop to figure out what to do.
620
00:40:40,440 --> 00:40:45,000
Go to our website, go to Flaherty Farto's website at pghfirm.com.
621
00:40:45,000 --> 00:40:49,400
Call us, email us, get help now.
622
00:40:49,400 --> 00:40:53,760
You know, don't wait for the intricacies of podcast scheduling to land there.
623
00:40:53,760 --> 00:40:55,640
So, yeah, thank you, Bill.
624
00:40:55,640 --> 00:40:56,640
And that's why I love you, Bill.
625
00:40:56,640 --> 00:40:58,720
You're still leaving your name out of the title.
626
00:40:58,720 --> 00:41:01,200
It's Flaherty Farto, Rogel Amick.
627
00:41:01,200 --> 00:41:02,200
Bill is a partner.
628
00:41:02,200 --> 00:41:04,280
Yale Bill is a partner.
629
00:41:04,280 --> 00:41:06,760
And but an unselfish one at that.
630
00:41:06,760 --> 00:41:07,760
But absolutely.
631
00:41:07,760 --> 00:41:09,520
Gentlemen, any final thoughts?
632
00:41:09,520 --> 00:41:14,760
So and again, I know you kind of you wrapped up and I just like as I'm thinking through
633
00:41:14,760 --> 00:41:19,280
it, you know, I love to take a significant other with me.
634
00:41:19,280 --> 00:41:22,600
When I'm in the doctor's office, I really do because they hear different things.
635
00:41:22,600 --> 00:41:29,080
I mean, this again, from recent experience, my significant other and I heard completely
636
00:41:29,080 --> 00:41:31,320
different things at a recent visit.
637
00:41:31,320 --> 00:41:34,800
And we you know, we came home and we're questioning each other like, wait a minute, I thought
638
00:41:34,800 --> 00:41:38,920
he said this and I'm like, no, I heard the exact opposite, that it wasn't there, you
639
00:41:38,920 --> 00:41:40,440
know, that type of thing.
640
00:41:40,440 --> 00:41:43,240
And also keep in mind, you're paying, right?
641
00:41:43,240 --> 00:41:45,560
This is your time.
642
00:41:45,560 --> 00:41:50,760
He's working for you during that 15 minutes to an hour, right?
643
00:41:50,760 --> 00:41:54,760
Thanks again, and always to the Godfather, our first repeat guest.
644
00:41:54,760 --> 00:41:56,400
I don't know if that's true.
645
00:41:56,400 --> 00:41:57,880
Actually, Nicole may have been on two episodes.
646
00:41:57,880 --> 00:41:58,880
I don't remember.
647
00:41:58,880 --> 00:42:04,320
Anyway, that should about do it for this episode of I strenuously object.
648
00:42:04,320 --> 00:42:09,400
Hopefully you learned something or had a few laughs or are willing to now speculate recklessly
649
00:42:09,400 --> 00:42:13,400
about the substance abuse problems of the medical professionals in your life.
650
00:42:13,400 --> 00:42:16,160
If so, please subscribe, rate and review.
651
00:42:16,160 --> 00:42:18,760
Tell your friends or your enemies about our podcast.
652
00:42:18,760 --> 00:42:20,520
It's the only way we can grow.
653
00:42:20,520 --> 00:42:25,200
If you have any questions for our mailing it in the mailbag segment or other feedback
654
00:42:25,200 --> 00:42:31,800
for the podcast, email the podcast directly at iobject at pgh firm dot com.
655
00:42:31,800 --> 00:42:33,560
And until next time, some parting advice.
656
00:42:33,560 --> 00:42:35,040
You've got to make the money.
657
00:42:35,040 --> 00:42:37,040
Then we get the money.
658
00:42:37,040 --> 00:42:39,760
You get the power that we get the power.
659
00:42:39,760 --> 00:42:40,760
Then you get the.
660
00:42:40,760 --> 00:42:43,520
Noah, are we adjourned?
661
00:42:43,520 --> 00:42:45,960
We are adjourned.
662
00:42:45,960 --> 00:42:48,440
We want to hear from you, our listeners.
663
00:42:48,440 --> 00:42:53,760
You can email us your questions, comments and suggestions for future episodes at iobject
664
00:42:53,760 --> 00:42:59,560
at pgh firm dot com or DM us on Instagram and Facebook.
665
00:42:59,560 --> 00:43:12,080
Follow us at Flaherty Fardo on Instagram or Flaherty Fardo Rogel and Amick on Facebook.