The Chris Rock Personal Injury Case. Why He Should File a Personal Injury Lawsuit for $200 Million.

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Please rise. Court is now in session.

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All rise.

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All rise.

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I strenuously object. A legal podcast brought to you by the Pittsburgh law firm Flaherty Fardo

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is now in session.

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All those seeking information about the law and legal matters affecting the people of Pittsburgh

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and the Commonwealth of Pennsylvania, half-baked opinions and a dose of self-indulgence

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are invited to attend and participate.

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I want the truth! You can't handle the truth!

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I object, your honor.

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Your honor, I object.

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You would!

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Listen, we don't know you. We don't know who you are. We don't know what you do.

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So please do not rely on anything we say as legal advice.

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I'm Noah Fardo, presiding. My wingman, attorney Bill Rugell.

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And all we're trying to do is bring a little irreverence.

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That's just what this stubby company needs! A little irreverence!

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Well, let's start the insanity.

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Call the first witness.

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Who wants to have some fun?

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Oh, I do. I do.

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Now, are you just saying you want to have fun or do you really want to have fun?

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Hey, Bill, how you doing today, bud?

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Uh, things are looking up. Pretty excited for what we got on tap today, I must admit.

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Yeah, it's not bad.

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Kate, the first episode of Case or No Case where two of the most seasoned trial attorneys

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examine whether modern day events have a lawsuit or not. Sounds like fun.

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Yeah, it sounds so good.

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Yeah, it sounds sounds like a pretty good, reckless time here.

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Now, our executive producer, PM Mike, told me that the Chris Rock story is to play.

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It's so played.

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Really?

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It's literally been everywhere since it happened.

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You cannot go on Facebook, Instagram, anywhere. And everyone is posting about it.

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Perhaps this is the key.

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I spend precisely zero time on Facebook or on Instagram.

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All I know is as a as a definite child of the 90s that we're talking about

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basically the biggest or one of the two or three biggest movie stars of my youth

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and a guy who was the funniest man on earth for a two or three year stretch in there.

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One is slapping the other in front of however many millions of people watch it on the Oscars.

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I find it endlessly fascinating.

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That said, look, our our target here is low.

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All we need to do is have the seven hundred and thirtieth take that someone's heard

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on Will Smith slapping Chris Rock be more interesting and entertaining

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than Allegheny County property tax appeals.

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And if we've done that, I think we've succeeded.

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Well, and that's what I was going to say.

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I mean, as many posts as I've seen about this, I've never seen this take on it,

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a legal take on it.

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So I'm interested in hearing what you guys have to say.

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So here's my agenda for today, Bill.

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We'll talk about Chris Rock.

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We're going to talk about the bridge collapsing in Pittsburgh.

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And in honor of the Pittsburgh Pirates opening day, we're going to talk about some lawsuits.

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When when you go to a ballpark, when can you sue?

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Because that's always on people's mind when they enter and go see a ballgame.

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But, you know, you and I have been doing personal injury for a long time.

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And I think, you know, we pretty we both have a pretty pragmatic view on personal injury lawsuits.

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And when people should sue and when people not, you know, maybe don't have a case or do have a case.

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But let's break down for people first, just the basics of personal injury law.

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When does somebody have a personal injury lawsuit?

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Yeah. And there's a lot of a lot of misunderstandings or I guess just poorly placed assumptions

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about the way that lawsuits work and liability works.

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First of all, when you're injured and you have whether or not you have a lawsuit depends in part

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upon whether or not the injury is someone else's fault.

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People think, for example, that if an injury happens on someone else's property,

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they're liable for it automatically.

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And there's a small amount of medical coverage attached to a lot of homeowner policies that does

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kick in in that circumstance.

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But but that's relatively trivial compared to the values you're talking about in an actual lawsuit.

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And in an actual lawsuit, unless the property owner did something wrong,

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the fact that it occurred on somebody's property.

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Look, if history has taught us anything, if anything in this life is certain,

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if history has taught us anything, it's that you can sue anyone.

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You can sue anyone for any reason, any time at all.

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You can file the lawsuit.

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It's not going to be a particularly strong one.

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There are two there are basically two elements to every personal injury suit in assessing its

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strength.

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There's liability.

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Whose fault is it?

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What did they do wrong?

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And damages.

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How was I injured?

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What happened to me?

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How am I harmed?

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And what is that worth?

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There's in between those two is the thing we call causation, which is how the thing that was done

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wrong leads to the injury.

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Yeah.

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Liability and damages in every personal injury lawsuit.

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And growing up in the eighties, I mean, I even remember as a kid, you know, I'll sue you.

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I'll sue you.

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Isn't that great?

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Growing up, you know, you kids, eight, nine, 10 years old, know what lawsuits are.

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They make fun of it.

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And, you know, in some ways, 40 years later, it's still as humorous to me in a way when

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people will sue and when people will won't won't sue.

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And there's a lot of times where people will get angered simply by the fact that somebody

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fought a lawsuit because they wouldn't have sued in that same position.

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And that's I think that's going to flow right into Chris Rock today.

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There's liability and damages.

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And in my first year of law school, they thought they had the class torts and a tort is a wrong.

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And any but any time you're wronged, they taught you that you had a tort and you could sue

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somebody.

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So the definition of a tort or a wrong, I mean, that's people feel that they've been wronged in a

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variety of ways.

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But as you said, once you've been wronged, unless you also have physical injuries or

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emotional injuries, then you don't have a lawsuit.

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Fair enough.

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Right.

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Look, there are times when people are negligent, but cause no harm.

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If I run a red light, but I don't hit anybody, you can't sue me just because I ran a red light.

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If I get struck by lightning, I've got injuries, but I don't have anyone to sue.

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I can't sue God for hitting me with a lightning bolt.

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So you need both.

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You need liability.

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Someone who's at fault did something wrong and damages actual injuries.

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You know, I have a lot of free time on my hands.

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I decided to write to Chris Rock earlier in the week and tell him that I thought he had a really

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good personal injury case and he should call me.

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And he hasn't called you.

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He has not called me yet, but I honestly, with how crazy my life has been in the way I've been

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able to change people's lives in very odd circumstances, I wouldn't be surprised if Chris

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Rock calls me.

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I'd be a little surprised if he calls me.

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I'd be a little surprised.

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I'd be a little surprised if Chris Rock calls me.

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So Bill and the basics of personal injury law, right?

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You got liability and damages.

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So let's play a little bit of case or no case where you and I will put our lawyer hats on

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and we'll look at some recent news events and we'll take both positions and eventually we'll

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bring in a couple jurors.

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People that I think are pretty pragmatic and should give us some interesting insight, but I

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want to talk about baseball.

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It's baseball, Roy.

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Baseball.

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There was a case recently in Los Angeles where a six year old girl was with her father on the

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first base sidelines.

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The players are over there signing autographs.

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The shortstop is catching with the first baseman.

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For some reason, the shortstop overthrows the first baseman and hits the six year old girl

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in the head with a baseball case or no case.

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William, you represent the family of the little girl.

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Does she have a case?

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So in my view, yes, she has a case here.

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And I say this as someone who personally doesn't like the baseball nets extended and kind of put

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a layer of separation down between people in the field.

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But here's the thing.

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Baseball, in an effort to make itself marketable to young kids in particular, has really gone out

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of its way to make the players accessible during pregame warmups.

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Come over here, sign autographs, get real close to the field and the players.

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At the same time out there on the field, the players are warming up.

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They're playing catch.

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They're running around.

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They're doing their stretches.

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This is not like during a baseball game where there is one ball in play and if you're watching

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the game, you're expected to be paying some measure of attention.

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There's balls flying around everywhere.

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You're over here looking at the first baseman signing autographs to the left fielder signing

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autographs.

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And then all of a sudden, the shortstop hits you with a ball.

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So you're a season ticket holder for the Pirates, correct?

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That was true until recently.

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But for many years you were a season ticket holder.

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Yes.

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And when you walked into that stadium, did you ever read the back of your ticket?

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Zero times.

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I believe the answer is zero.

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I believe the answer is zero times.

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But you do understand that there's a waiver on that ticket that you are coming to a ball

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game voluntarily and you are assuming the risk of your injuries if a foul ball hits

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you in the side of the head.

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Well, yes.

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And honestly, I don't know if the waiver has an effect or not on this.

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Because of how common that specific fact pattern is, there is binding Pennsylvania

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case law on this point.

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And any spectator who is attending a baseball game is to a measure assuming what are the

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ordinary risks of attending a baseball game.

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If a foul ball leaves the field in the normal course of play and there is nothing wrong

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or defective with the setup of the field itself, then you have no case.

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There is no liability there.

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We've decided as a society, we want people to be able to go to baseball games and have

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that not be a ticking time bomb of liability at all moments.

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What's interesting there is baseball essentially gets to decide for itself how much protection

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is appropriate.

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That is, it's measured essentially by a community standard.

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If my baseball field is the same level of safety as basically all the other baseball

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fields, then I don't bear liability.

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So as soon as one or two teams started extending their nets down the first and third baselines,

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all the other teams had to follow suit, even if baseball didn't make it a rule.

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Because eventually what was going to happen was you were going to get brought into court

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and say, all these other teams have nets that are protecting their fans who are sitting

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two thirds of the way up the baseline.

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Why haven't you?

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When you look at lawsuits against for premise liability, it's called like in a baseball

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stadium, it's always what is the community doing?

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What is the community doing?

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What is the standard?

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But what arguments can you make?

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Because I don't think if a client came to me and said, hey, I got hit by a foul ball,

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I'm not taking the case.

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I just, unless there's something unusual about it.

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But in the case of the poor little girl out in Anaheim, you're buying this.

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This is a case in your opinion.

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Well, I think the key language you said was, you know, if it's ordinary circumstances,

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I think this is a case because I think the pregame activities, which are both directly

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addressing and asking children to come down near the field and which are occurring in such a

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chaotic fashion that it's impossible to protect yourself and see any ball that might come

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flying in from any angle.

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Yeah, it's not safe.

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And I'm torn on it only because I want this activity to exist.

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The kids get the biggest kick out of this stuff.

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But man, is it dangerous.

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Yeah, I think there's a case here too, because I'm not expecting the first baseman to miss it.

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You know, it's so unusual.

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You haven't heard this before that it's hard to say the shortstop was negligent.

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But during warmups, the team has a responsibility.

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This would be my argument.

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The team has a responsibility to understand they're drawing these little kids down along

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the first base line sidelines to get this autographs.

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And they're not going to be paying attention.

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They're going to be looking at the players.

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And then here comes a ball thrown by one of the people that you're paying millions of

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dollars to.

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That's a case.

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That's right.

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And I wouldn't say that anytime the first baseman misses it, there's a case, right?

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There's errors.

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They happen.

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You field 10,000 ground balls over the course of a career and you're going to throw some

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of them into the crowd.

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If you get hit by a ball in play, I don't think there's a case there.

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Again, unless there's some other problem, unless there's improper netting or seeding

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or the guy who's selling cotton candy is blocking your view.

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Maybe you can backdoor a case that way.

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But getting hit in pregame warmups is just a different creature.

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Bill, what I want to do next is bring in some of the jurors.

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00:12:56,880 --> 00:13:00,880
And we had to dig deep to find some old friends of mine to participate.

240
00:13:01,840 --> 00:13:02,880
One is Bill Moses.

241
00:13:02,880 --> 00:13:04,400
I've known him for 50 years.

242
00:13:04,400 --> 00:13:05,760
He had a fantastic arm.

243
00:13:07,680 --> 00:13:09,600
Ran a winged tee in high school.

244
00:13:09,600 --> 00:13:10,640
Very effective.

245
00:13:10,640 --> 00:13:11,680
Very effective.

246
00:13:11,680 --> 00:13:14,560
But he provides interesting analysis.

247
00:13:14,560 --> 00:13:17,440
I find him very bright and I think he'll contribute.

248
00:13:17,440 --> 00:13:22,400
The other is Ron Meyers, longtime friend, also known as the godfather of tax appeals.

249
00:13:22,400 --> 00:13:27,120
And I want to hear what they have to say about the case or no case.

250
00:13:27,120 --> 00:13:29,280
Billy, Ron, welcome.

251
00:13:29,280 --> 00:13:31,600
And Billy, let's start with you.

252
00:13:31,600 --> 00:13:32,160
Good morning.

253
00:13:32,720 --> 00:13:34,640
Welcome to case or no case today.

254
00:13:34,640 --> 00:13:37,760
We've been talking about the poor girl out in Anaheim who was hit when the

255
00:13:37,760 --> 00:13:39,280
overthrown ball from the shortstop.

256
00:13:39,280 --> 00:13:41,280
What case or no case in your opinion?

257
00:13:41,280 --> 00:13:42,160
You're a juror.

258
00:13:42,160 --> 00:13:43,840
You've heard our arguments.

259
00:13:43,840 --> 00:13:45,360
Do you think there's a lawsuit here?

260
00:13:45,920 --> 00:13:53,120
I think there is simply for the fact that major league baseball has to account that

261
00:13:53,120 --> 00:13:54,720
these guys are not perfect, right?

262
00:13:54,720 --> 00:13:59,520
So if you're going to sit in an area where a bat can be broken and go possibly into the

263
00:13:59,520 --> 00:14:06,240
stands or a ball goes flying, and I think it's safe to assume you should be expect a

264
00:14:06,240 --> 00:14:08,400
some relative safety measures taken.

265
00:14:08,400 --> 00:14:16,000
And I do believe I would like to also I would if I was on the jury, I would want to have

266
00:14:16,000 --> 00:14:22,160
some examples of I know there has been things with stands and recently where people actually

267
00:14:22,160 --> 00:14:26,560
died falling from different stadiums because they were unsafe.

268
00:14:26,560 --> 00:14:30,320
I believe they would be there would be a lawsuit here.

269
00:14:30,880 --> 00:14:34,480
Yeah, I mean, the people falling off of the stands is different, obviously, and that's

270
00:14:34,480 --> 00:14:36,560
that's more of a whether the structure was safe.

271
00:14:36,560 --> 00:14:41,440
But there was a there was a foul ball in Pittsburgh not too long ago where the the batter hit

272
00:14:41,440 --> 00:14:42,000
the ball.

273
00:14:42,000 --> 00:14:46,640
It was a hard foul ball into the net behind home plate persons walking.

274
00:14:46,640 --> 00:14:50,640
You know, everybody's on their cell phones now at ball games and the net hit it.

275
00:14:50,640 --> 00:14:51,600
So that was in the news.

276
00:14:51,600 --> 00:14:54,800
And this does happen periodically.

277
00:14:55,360 --> 00:14:56,800
We got this deep into the show.

278
00:14:56,800 --> 00:15:00,720
I don't think there's any fixing it, but I'm going to issue the in media ray correction.

279
00:15:01,440 --> 00:15:04,560
It appears that the injured child was a little boy, not a little girl.

280
00:15:04,560 --> 00:15:08,160
It appears that the person who threw the ball into the stand was a pitcher and not a short

281
00:15:08,160 --> 00:15:08,720
stop.

282
00:15:08,720 --> 00:15:15,280
I don't know that that changes our analysis, but let's not be completely off base here

283
00:15:15,280 --> 00:15:15,780
either.

284
00:15:17,200 --> 00:15:18,400
What could have been a different one?

285
00:15:18,400 --> 00:15:19,840
Maybe we read different articles.

286
00:15:20,400 --> 00:15:20,880
All right.

287
00:15:20,880 --> 00:15:22,720
Next, let's welcome Ron Myers.

288
00:15:23,280 --> 00:15:24,960
Ronnie, welcome case or no case.

289
00:15:25,680 --> 00:15:26,880
There's definitely a case.

290
00:15:27,600 --> 00:15:33,680
I'm kind of an unsympathetic juror and I hate to sound callous, but you know, you assume

291
00:15:33,680 --> 00:15:36,800
risk when you go to a game, you assume risk when you go to a concert.

292
00:15:36,800 --> 00:15:37,280
I get it.

293
00:15:38,800 --> 00:15:39,360
We corrected.

294
00:15:39,360 --> 00:15:40,080
It's a heat, right?

295
00:15:40,080 --> 00:15:40,880
The gender.

296
00:15:40,880 --> 00:15:41,520
It's a heat.

297
00:15:41,520 --> 00:15:42,020
Six.

298
00:15:42,960 --> 00:15:43,600
Okay.

299
00:15:43,600 --> 00:15:45,200
Not that that matters, right?

300
00:15:45,200 --> 00:15:47,760
But you give it, you give them some money and move on.

301
00:15:47,760 --> 00:15:48,640
Not a lot.

302
00:15:48,640 --> 00:15:49,120
Not a lot.

303
00:15:49,680 --> 00:15:50,320
That's where I'm at.

304
00:15:50,320 --> 00:15:51,440
This is fascinating to me.

305
00:15:51,440 --> 00:15:54,320
And there's here's where I want to go next with Billy and Ronnie.

306
00:15:54,320 --> 00:15:55,760
So Billy thinks there's a case.

307
00:15:56,800 --> 00:16:01,920
Ronnie thinks there's a case, but he's kind of, you know, appreciating the assuming the

308
00:16:01,920 --> 00:16:09,120
risk of your injuries in a ball game and because the level of liability affects the damages,

309
00:16:09,120 --> 00:16:10,240
you know, they're tied together.

310
00:16:10,240 --> 00:16:12,160
They're not distinct and separate.

311
00:16:12,160 --> 00:16:15,760
If something's outrageous and anger somebody, they're going to award more money.

312
00:16:15,760 --> 00:16:19,680
But here Ronnie's sort of looking at, okay, you probably have a case.

313
00:16:19,680 --> 00:16:22,000
So let's talk about the value of the case.

314
00:16:23,760 --> 00:16:28,960
When you go into a jury, juror room in Pennsylvania, there's 12 people on a jury,

315
00:16:28,960 --> 00:16:30,080
10 need to agree.

316
00:16:30,080 --> 00:16:31,760
So five out of every six.

317
00:16:31,760 --> 00:16:36,720
And once those 10 agree that there's liability, they have to award an amount.

318
00:16:36,720 --> 00:16:40,640
So Billy, you're on the juror of this case first.

319
00:16:41,200 --> 00:16:43,520
And you think there's a case, right?

320
00:16:43,520 --> 00:16:53,280
If I tell you that the damages are that this child did live, but is experiencing emotional

321
00:16:53,280 --> 00:16:56,160
difficulties in school, having trouble learning.

322
00:16:56,160 --> 00:17:02,160
And we don't know what the future holds, but there's, you know, $50,000 in medical bills.

323
00:17:03,360 --> 00:17:05,520
Put together how you value the case.

324
00:17:07,200 --> 00:17:08,400
How I value the case.

325
00:17:09,600 --> 00:17:15,440
I would have to say that given the nature of baseball, like we've all gone to games,

326
00:17:15,440 --> 00:17:19,280
you're bringing a glove, especially if you're seeing in an area, we can catch foul ball.

327
00:17:19,840 --> 00:17:24,720
So I am unsympathetic in the sense that I understand you go to a game, you bring a glove,

328
00:17:24,720 --> 00:17:31,040
you expect, you know, you're seeing an area where baseballs can be hit, that you can be prepared.

329
00:17:31,040 --> 00:17:35,440
But I just feel like when I look at this case, I know they could win money.

330
00:17:36,320 --> 00:17:41,440
I don't think it's going to change base, you know, the team's going to put up more protection.

331
00:17:41,440 --> 00:17:46,000
I just think they would pay it and get and move on because of the nature.

332
00:17:46,000 --> 00:17:47,040
It's a little kid.

333
00:17:47,600 --> 00:17:50,160
They were seriously injured and it's major league baseball.

334
00:17:50,160 --> 00:17:54,080
And I feel like they would have just from my public relief, you know,

335
00:17:54,080 --> 00:17:57,360
public relations standpoint, have to pay out something.

336
00:17:57,360 --> 00:17:58,800
I guess that's how I was looking at.

337
00:17:58,800 --> 00:17:59,600
How about a dollar?

338
00:17:59,600 --> 00:18:01,280
I want a dollar amount, Billy.

339
00:18:01,280 --> 00:18:02,640
Can you put a dollar amount on it?

340
00:18:04,000 --> 00:18:07,520
I think for me, and I don't know if this is again, I'm not a lawyer,

341
00:18:07,520 --> 00:18:10,480
but I would have to look at and I don't know in integer.

342
00:18:10,480 --> 00:18:11,840
I've never been a juror before.

343
00:18:11,840 --> 00:18:15,360
So, but I would imagine I would want to look at similar cases

344
00:18:16,640 --> 00:18:20,400
and have that to make those decisions.

345
00:18:20,400 --> 00:18:22,080
But I think that's the cost.

346
00:18:22,080 --> 00:18:23,280
Right.

347
00:18:23,280 --> 00:18:28,480
So that's a fascinating answer in part because we have heard jurors tell us exactly that, right?

348
00:18:28,480 --> 00:18:31,280
We want to know what what's being given in other cases.

349
00:18:31,280 --> 00:18:35,360
Jurors don't want to be out of step with what everyone else is doing.

350
00:18:35,360 --> 00:18:37,200
They want to kind of fall in line.

351
00:18:37,920 --> 00:18:42,320
No one is allowed to tell the juror what has been awarded in other cases or similar cases.

352
00:18:42,320 --> 00:18:44,320
It's information that all the jurors want.

353
00:18:44,320 --> 00:18:46,720
And as a matter of law, they're just not allowed to have.

354
00:18:47,360 --> 00:18:48,800
Okay. I didn't realize that.

355
00:18:48,800 --> 00:18:55,600
So if I was putting a number on it, I'm going to put the medical costs and then emotional.

356
00:18:56,160 --> 00:19:02,080
Anything that has to be covered with that with, I would imagine there's going to be some counseling therapy.

357
00:19:02,080 --> 00:19:04,080
You said $50,000 in medical costs.

358
00:19:05,280 --> 00:19:06,080
Is that what you said?

359
00:19:06,080 --> 00:19:08,000
No, assuming $50,000.

360
00:19:08,000 --> 00:19:08,480
Yes.

361
00:19:09,440 --> 00:19:11,680
I mean, it's so arbitrary.

362
00:19:11,680 --> 00:19:12,880
$150,000.

363
00:19:13,520 --> 00:19:14,080
All right.

364
00:19:14,080 --> 00:19:14,640
We've got a number.

365
00:19:14,640 --> 00:19:15,600
We've got to listen.

366
00:19:15,600 --> 00:19:17,600
Billy just determined a verdict.

367
00:19:17,600 --> 00:19:20,160
He determined liability and he determined an amount.

368
00:19:20,160 --> 00:19:23,840
Ronnie, you weren't as sold on liability.

369
00:19:23,840 --> 00:19:25,840
Discuss how you value the case as a juror.

370
00:19:27,840 --> 00:19:34,640
You know, I literally had the number of $150,000 in my mind, which is interesting to say the least.

371
00:19:35,520 --> 00:19:39,200
So, but the one question I would like, how damaged is this child?

372
00:19:41,440 --> 00:19:43,200
That matters to me.

373
00:19:43,200 --> 00:19:52,560
I mean, if it's just, oh, I got a black eye and, you know, and I get to show off at school and I got the, yeah, you're going to get up in the couple hundred thousand dollar range.

374
00:19:53,280 --> 00:19:54,080
Right.

375
00:19:54,080 --> 00:19:55,840
You got to pay for pain and suffering.

376
00:19:56,560 --> 00:19:59,040
We have to know how damaged this child is.

377
00:19:59,680 --> 00:20:01,120
Do we know the answer to that?

378
00:20:01,120 --> 00:20:04,080
How injured this child is?

379
00:20:04,080 --> 00:20:05,040
Yeah, you were breaking up.

380
00:20:05,040 --> 00:20:06,000
One, you're breaking up.

381
00:20:06,000 --> 00:20:06,880
Two, no, we don't.

382
00:20:06,880 --> 00:20:08,640
We have news articles, right?

383
00:20:08,640 --> 00:20:13,680
We don't have access to this child's medical history on a case.

384
00:20:14,400 --> 00:20:16,000
Just not a thing I can give you.

385
00:20:16,000 --> 00:20:16,320
Sorry.

386
00:20:16,320 --> 00:20:39,280
So, Bill, what's fascinating to me is not only were they pretty close, I mean, we didn't get into the details of the medical records, but both of at least these jurors were pretty close in the value range of $150,000, which as lawyers, you know, isn't a lot of money in terms of what this case will probably settle for.

387
00:20:39,280 --> 00:20:49,120
And, you know, every juror I've ever talked to, which is always interesting to talk to jurors after a jury trial, and you ask them what is a case worth?

388
00:20:49,120 --> 00:20:51,280
Every single juror says, I have no idea.

389
00:20:52,320 --> 00:20:57,600
Nobody has any idea how to value a case and they're lost and they're looking for guidance, like Billy said.

390
00:20:58,160 --> 00:21:04,240
And the other thing they don't know and don't kind of think about and the law kind of tells them not to think about it.

391
00:21:04,240 --> 00:21:04,480
Right.

392
00:21:04,480 --> 00:21:13,280
But if you get to the end of a trial and you award $150,000, but you paid medical experts to come in there, you have attorney's fees coming out of there typically at 40 percent.

393
00:21:14,240 --> 00:21:21,120
You have, you know, maybe a subrogation lien where you have to repay medical bills that have already been paid by an insurance company.

394
00:21:22,080 --> 00:21:30,400
You know, you go to trial on a case like this and you get $150,000 verdict, you might get $70,000 to the actual injured kid.

395
00:21:30,400 --> 00:21:30,880
Seventy.

396
00:21:30,880 --> 00:21:32,240
He may not even get that.

397
00:21:32,240 --> 00:21:33,840
See, I think this is a case.

398
00:21:33,840 --> 00:21:36,960
I think I take this case and I think there's a two to three million dollar demand.

399
00:21:37,760 --> 00:21:41,920
You know, you get a ball club that you're always looking at the wealth of the defendant.

400
00:21:41,920 --> 00:21:45,840
But, you know, that's where everybody's in agreement.

401
00:21:45,840 --> 00:21:47,440
Case on the ball.

402
00:21:47,440 --> 00:21:50,400
So if you go to a ball field, probably don't have a case.

403
00:21:50,400 --> 00:21:53,200
But if you do, it may only be worth $150,000.

404
00:21:54,800 --> 00:21:58,880
OK, case or no case number two, Billy and Ronnie are still with us, our jurors.

405
00:21:58,880 --> 00:22:03,440
Bill, recently a bridge collapsed spontaneously.

406
00:22:03,440 --> 00:22:04,720
It sure did.

407
00:22:04,720 --> 00:22:09,440
The Fern Hollow Bridge on the day that President Biden visited Pittsburgh.

408
00:22:10,880 --> 00:22:17,360
And I read recently that lawsuits have been filed by people that were in the cars on the bridges and nobody died.

409
00:22:18,000 --> 00:22:20,640
But they did believe there was a cervical fracture.

410
00:22:20,640 --> 00:22:24,960
I'm sure you'll read the newspaper and correct me because I my facts aren't always correct.

411
00:22:24,960 --> 00:22:26,560
But case or no case.

412
00:22:26,560 --> 00:22:28,960
You're on a car on a bridge, the bridge collapses.

413
00:22:28,960 --> 00:22:29,680
You suing?

414
00:22:29,680 --> 00:22:34,080
Yeah, a couple of things just to try to move quickly through here.

415
00:22:34,080 --> 00:22:39,280
First of all, I don't know anyone who knew that the name of this bridge was the Fern Hollow Bridge until it collapsed.

416
00:22:39,280 --> 00:22:46,640
But it's, you know, it's Forbes Avenue, right, as it's coming into Frick Park and the Regent Square area.

417
00:22:46,640 --> 00:22:51,040
As someone for whom this bridge is literally on the path between my home and our office.

418
00:22:52,560 --> 00:22:54,160
I've driven across it however many times.

419
00:22:54,160 --> 00:22:58,320
I had no idea it was as high as it was until I saw some of the footage shot from down below.

420
00:22:59,040 --> 00:23:08,080
And interesting to note, the couple who was just in the news for having filed a lawsuit were the couple who were in like the Red Ford pickup.

421
00:23:08,080 --> 00:23:08,960
I think it was a Ford.

422
00:23:08,960 --> 00:23:12,080
In any case, a red pickup truck that collapsed with the bridge.

423
00:23:12,960 --> 00:23:14,800
I too drive a red pickup truck.

424
00:23:14,800 --> 00:23:19,760
I had family members taking pictures of that on the news and sending it to me asking, was that me?

425
00:23:20,560 --> 00:23:22,240
Was I involved in that collapse?

426
00:23:22,240 --> 00:23:22,960
I wasn't.

427
00:23:22,960 --> 00:23:24,560
I was working from home that day.

428
00:23:24,560 --> 00:23:25,440
Thank God.

429
00:23:25,440 --> 00:23:26,640
Looking at case or no case.

430
00:23:26,640 --> 00:23:30,000
I mean, the arguments for a case are pretty simple and straightforward.

431
00:23:30,000 --> 00:23:35,920
Bridges typically don't collapse in the absence of negligence, I would think.

432
00:23:35,920 --> 00:23:41,280
And somebody has to have a duty to inspect the bridge to see if it's safe.

433
00:23:41,280 --> 00:23:46,240
So I'm thinking there's a case all day long.

434
00:23:46,240 --> 00:23:49,760
I mean, there's an issue with immunity, which we can talk about briefly if you want.

435
00:23:49,760 --> 00:23:53,120
But are you agreeing with me there's a case here?

436
00:23:53,120 --> 00:23:55,280
So that is the whole issue, right?

437
00:23:55,280 --> 00:24:03,680
If this bridge is a privately owned bridge, there is clearly a case against the owner of that bridge for failing to maintain it properly.

438
00:24:03,680 --> 00:24:12,880
Where things do get a little more complicated is that you've got a variety of governmental entities, all of which are going to have some role or another in this.

439
00:24:12,880 --> 00:24:16,880
So my understanding, and it's limited, I don't represent anyone on this case.

440
00:24:16,880 --> 00:24:22,800
I haven't done the research on figuring out who all the theoretically responsible parties are.

441
00:24:22,800 --> 00:24:29,600
But my understanding is that the city owns the bridge itself, but I'm not sure if the city was the one doing the actual maintenance.

442
00:24:29,600 --> 00:24:34,800
There were state reports that were commissioned, at least by PennDOT.

443
00:24:34,800 --> 00:24:41,360
I'm not sure if they're performed by PennDOT employees or third party independent contractors who were doing bridge inspections.

444
00:24:41,360 --> 00:24:58,000
Tracing through exactly who it is, who you want to sue here is important because the general overarching principle, until you fit into an exception, is the government negligently performing government duties is not responsible.

445
00:24:58,000 --> 00:25:00,720
You can't sue them. They have sovereign immunity.

446
00:25:00,720 --> 00:25:07,280
But there are a list of statutory exceptions and the conditions of a roadway are one of them.

447
00:25:07,280 --> 00:25:14,880
So in this case, I think you're going to, once you figure out who the right party is, I think you're going to fit into that exception.

448
00:25:14,880 --> 00:25:19,520
But that is the only real confounding circumstance here, in my opinion.

449
00:25:19,520 --> 00:25:21,520
Otherwise, liability should be straightforward.

450
00:25:21,520 --> 00:25:24,720
Yeah, I look at a bridge collapse like an airplane going down.

451
00:25:24,720 --> 00:25:26,720
I'm suing everybody.

452
00:25:26,720 --> 00:25:28,160
Sue everybody.

453
00:25:28,160 --> 00:25:34,480
And somebody has to be responsible because airplanes don't crash in the absence of negligence or a malfunction of some sort.

454
00:25:34,480 --> 00:25:36,000
Let's bring in the jurors.

455
00:25:36,000 --> 00:25:38,000
Sue them all. Let the court sort them out.

456
00:25:38,000 --> 00:25:40,480
Sue them all. Let the court figure it out.

457
00:25:40,480 --> 00:25:42,480
I got Billy and Ronnie with me still.

458
00:25:42,480 --> 00:25:45,760
Billy, were you familiar with the bridge collapse in Pittsburgh?

459
00:25:45,760 --> 00:25:48,640
Yes, I was. That was national news.

460
00:25:48,640 --> 00:25:50,640
Partly because of the bridge.

461
00:25:50,640 --> 00:25:54,640
I didn't believe it was the same day Biden was coming in to talk about infrastructure.

462
00:25:54,640 --> 00:25:58,160
You're a juror, Billy.

463
00:25:58,160 --> 00:26:02,000
Any hesitation on, I mean, this is fairly obvious.

464
00:26:02,000 --> 00:26:03,040
This is a softball.

465
00:26:03,040 --> 00:26:05,040
But any hesitation, thoughts on liability?

466
00:26:05,040 --> 00:26:07,040
You're a juror.

467
00:26:07,040 --> 00:26:10,560
If the family sues that was parked on the bridge, you buying or selling?

468
00:26:10,560 --> 00:26:11,600
I'm buying.

469
00:26:11,600 --> 00:26:14,320
I'm buying. Someone should be responsible for it.

470
00:26:14,320 --> 00:26:15,600
I just don't know.

471
00:26:15,600 --> 00:26:17,040
No one was killed.

472
00:26:17,040 --> 00:26:24,480
But I don't know, like you guys were saying, who would be responsible for it because that would be one of the main things to find out.

473
00:26:24,480 --> 00:26:26,480
But there has to be some negligence there.

474
00:26:26,480 --> 00:26:28,480
Ronnie, you agreeing?

475
00:26:28,480 --> 00:26:30,480
Absolute case.

476
00:26:30,480 --> 00:26:32,480
This is juicy.

477
00:26:32,480 --> 00:26:34,000
I'm giving away the farm.

478
00:26:34,000 --> 00:26:42,720
So Ronnie, I think it's interesting that you now like this one and you think the liability, you're ready to award more money.

479
00:26:42,720 --> 00:26:47,920
You know, you look at personally, you got physical damages and then you have emotional damages.

480
00:26:47,920 --> 00:26:52,320
And those are two distinct types of claims.

481
00:26:52,320 --> 00:26:57,120
That's like being thrown into a shark tank, as far as I'm concerned.

482
00:26:57,120 --> 00:27:00,640
A bridge collapsing when I'm on it? Oh my.

483
00:27:00,640 --> 00:27:01,520
All right, let me ask you this.

484
00:27:01,520 --> 00:27:06,000
Case or no case, I throw you into a shark tank.

485
00:27:06,000 --> 00:27:07,200
Yeah, exactly.

486
00:27:07,200 --> 00:27:09,440
I want this is a great case.

487
00:27:09,440 --> 00:27:12,320
And again, I go back to like, how injured are these people?

488
00:27:12,320 --> 00:27:13,680
Like, are they maimed for life?

489
00:27:13,680 --> 00:27:16,800
If they are, these guys are getting paid millions.

490
00:27:16,800 --> 00:27:17,440
Let me ask you this.

491
00:27:17,440 --> 00:27:18,960
Let me get your opinion on value.

492
00:27:18,960 --> 00:27:21,680
And I'm going to if my facts aren't correct, Bill, then I just make them up.

493
00:27:21,680 --> 00:27:25,040
But let's assume theoretically that there was a fracture.

494
00:27:25,040 --> 00:27:30,720
There was a back fracture here that it's a non-surgical fracture, which means it's going to heal.

495
00:27:30,720 --> 00:27:31,760
In three to six months.

496
00:27:31,760 --> 00:27:35,840
But they certainly did have the fear of thinking they were going to die.

497
00:27:35,840 --> 00:27:38,640
Or I assume those were their thoughts.

498
00:27:38,640 --> 00:27:46,160
Well, and let's remember in virtually every one of these cases, if you have a fracture, yes, it quote unquote heals.

499
00:27:46,160 --> 00:27:47,280
It's never the same.

500
00:27:47,280 --> 00:27:51,360
And you're all you're going to have permanent back problems as a result of this.

501
00:27:51,360 --> 00:27:53,760
The question is the severity, not the permanence.

502
00:27:54,880 --> 00:27:56,960
All right, Billy Moses, we need a number.

503
00:27:56,960 --> 00:27:59,600
Well, you know, I love running.

504
00:27:59,600 --> 00:28:02,800
I can imagine being in a jury room with him.

505
00:28:02,800 --> 00:28:05,520
He would be very influential.

506
00:28:05,520 --> 00:28:06,240
Very good.

507
00:28:06,240 --> 00:28:07,280
Very good takes on this.

508
00:28:07,280 --> 00:28:13,680
But I think that as juror, one thing that popped into my mind is I would want to press you.

509
00:28:13,680 --> 00:28:26,880
Because although this case, despite the injuries and there were no fatalities, I think that you would want to set a number that gets other counties or counties to be able to get the money.

510
00:28:26,880 --> 00:28:29,200
Or whoever's responsible to take notice.

511
00:28:29,200 --> 00:28:33,520
Like, let's make sure we're taking care of our infrastructure.

512
00:28:33,520 --> 00:28:37,520
You know, I don't know if that's that could factor in a lawsuit or if it should.

513
00:28:37,520 --> 00:28:39,840
But that's the one thing that that enters my mind.

514
00:28:39,840 --> 00:28:44,400
And I would imagine I'm with Ronnie on this one.

515
00:28:44,400 --> 00:28:46,800
I'd go for I'd go for broke whatever that number.

516
00:28:46,800 --> 00:28:48,560
I just really bad at the numbers.

517
00:28:48,560 --> 00:28:52,000
But I'm going to say million dollars.

518
00:28:52,000 --> 00:28:52,960
Like, I just made that up.

519
00:28:52,960 --> 00:29:00,320
But I mean, what what you are going to want to set it high so that it gets people's attention.

520
00:29:01,200 --> 00:29:02,160
Interesting.

521
00:29:02,160 --> 00:29:03,840
Ronnie, what do you got for me on damages?

522
00:29:04,640 --> 00:29:07,120
OK, so I got a couple of things here, right?

523
00:29:07,120 --> 00:29:08,400
You have an injured back.

524
00:29:08,400 --> 00:29:10,400
I don't know how severe, but it sucks.

525
00:29:10,400 --> 00:29:11,760
You're going to have that forever.

526
00:29:11,760 --> 00:29:12,000
Right.

527
00:29:12,000 --> 00:29:13,040
You got to give money.

528
00:29:14,000 --> 00:29:15,040
The fear factor.

529
00:29:15,040 --> 00:29:16,080
I can't get over it.

530
00:29:16,080 --> 00:29:17,920
Like, I won't be able to drive over bridges.

531
00:29:17,920 --> 00:29:20,480
And that's an impossibility in Pittsburgh.

532
00:29:20,480 --> 00:29:20,720
Right.

533
00:29:20,720 --> 00:29:24,080
Like, I'll never go over a bridge if a bridge collapse.

534
00:29:24,080 --> 00:29:25,680
That's it for me.

535
00:29:25,680 --> 00:29:28,000
And then lastly, the negligence.

536
00:29:28,000 --> 00:29:31,840
Someone's inspecting these bridges annually and saying they're OK.

537
00:29:31,840 --> 00:29:33,760
And obviously, it is not OK.

538
00:29:33,760 --> 00:29:36,400
I'm in the 10 million dollar range with this thing.

539
00:29:36,400 --> 00:29:38,240
To be fair, this is best I can tell.

540
00:29:38,240 --> 00:29:39,440
Nobody says it was OK.

541
00:29:39,440 --> 00:29:42,800
They're saying this bridge is in terrible shape and nobody did anything about it.

542
00:29:42,800 --> 00:29:45,200
Which is even worse, even worse.

543
00:29:45,200 --> 00:29:46,080
Give them more money.

544
00:29:47,360 --> 00:29:49,040
I just I just went up 20 percent.

545
00:29:49,040 --> 00:29:50,800
Twelve million dollars.

546
00:29:51,680 --> 00:29:55,280
You know, what's amazing to me, Bill, is that these are like real jurors.

547
00:29:55,280 --> 00:29:59,360
You know, these are these this is the type of conversations that I'm angry.

548
00:29:59,360 --> 00:30:00,400
Really, listen to me.

549
00:30:00,400 --> 00:30:01,280
Listen to my voice.

550
00:30:01,280 --> 00:30:01,920
It's raised.

551
00:30:01,920 --> 00:30:02,560
I'm angered.

552
00:30:05,840 --> 00:30:09,680
But it's so funny because Bill and I know that you guys are looking at this just from

553
00:30:09,680 --> 00:30:10,240
common sense.

554
00:30:10,240 --> 00:30:11,360
You know, you're not lawyers.

555
00:30:11,360 --> 00:30:15,840
We're looking at these cases completely different in our minds from a legal perspective.

556
00:30:15,840 --> 00:30:22,160
The baseball case, when you have a young kid with potential, you know, many years to prove

557
00:30:22,160 --> 00:30:25,440
damages out typically from a lawyer's mind would be worth more.

558
00:30:25,440 --> 00:30:26,560
But that's not what I'm seeing.

559
00:30:26,560 --> 00:30:32,720
I'm seeing, OK, a fractured back, which can be bad, but they can also have less severe

560
00:30:32,720 --> 00:30:33,840
fractured backs.

561
00:30:33,840 --> 00:30:38,640
But just the negligence here is raising the value of the case so much.

562
00:30:38,640 --> 00:30:42,320
So I think that's a you know, how did why is somebody negligent?

563
00:30:42,320 --> 00:30:46,720
And if that can anger or motivate the jurors, it's obviously increasing the awards.

564
00:30:47,760 --> 00:30:51,600
All right. Next, Bill, we're going to talk about case or no case, the Chris Rock slap

565
00:30:51,600 --> 00:30:52,720
heard around the world.

566
00:30:54,160 --> 00:30:56,240
What's the five fingers state of the face?

567
00:30:57,520 --> 00:31:00,000
He slapped the shit out of me.

568
00:31:00,000 --> 00:31:00,480
He did.

569
00:31:03,360 --> 00:31:10,560
So I was thinking lawsuit fairly early on, and then I read a Jim Carrey article that

570
00:31:10,560 --> 00:31:12,640
he was the one that I saw first throughout.

571
00:31:12,640 --> 00:31:15,920
He should sue Will Smith for two hundred million dollars.

572
00:31:17,360 --> 00:31:24,160
Let's represent Chris first and then let's represent Will second and talk about whether

573
00:31:24,160 --> 00:31:25,840
there's a case or no case here.

574
00:31:25,840 --> 00:31:29,440
So you represent Chris Rock, make an argument to me why he has a case.

575
00:31:30,000 --> 00:31:34,880
Well, look, I mean, this is the this is the easy and obvious position.

576
00:31:34,880 --> 00:31:35,920
He has a case.

577
00:31:36,800 --> 00:31:39,280
Two hundred million dollars isn't even ludicrous.

578
00:31:39,280 --> 00:31:44,240
And that is even though as far as I know, let's assume and I don't know this to be true,

579
00:31:44,240 --> 00:31:47,600
but let's assume there's no actual lasting physical injuries.

580
00:31:47,600 --> 00:31:51,760
Right. Let's assume his face was swollen for a day or two, but that he doesn't have hearing

581
00:31:51,760 --> 00:31:55,040
loss or dental problems or something that we don't know about.

582
00:31:55,040 --> 00:32:00,080
Right. Let's just assume that he is physically fine, felt some pain in the moment, but got

583
00:32:00,080 --> 00:32:09,680
slapped in front of 50 million people in front of live TV cameras and a live studio audience.

584
00:32:09,680 --> 00:32:12,720
Look, slapping someone, that's a battery.

585
00:32:14,800 --> 00:32:18,800
It's interesting to note that the criminal statutes get these terms confused sometimes.

586
00:32:18,800 --> 00:32:19,840
Well, confused is not the right word.

587
00:32:19,840 --> 00:32:21,520
It just means something different in that context.

588
00:32:22,800 --> 00:32:28,080
We will use the word assault in a lot of criminal contexts and implicitly the assault

589
00:32:28,080 --> 00:32:29,200
means the physical contact.

590
00:32:29,200 --> 00:32:33,040
When you're talking about lawsuits, there's a difference between a battery and an assault.

591
00:32:33,040 --> 00:32:38,880
The battery is the actual physical contact, the unwanted touching, and the assault is

592
00:32:38,880 --> 00:32:42,320
the imminent apprehension of the unwanted touching.

593
00:32:43,440 --> 00:32:49,520
So in my mind, there is some moment during the course of Will Smith's big wind up and

594
00:32:49,520 --> 00:32:52,800
slap that Chris Rock realizes he's going to hit me.

595
00:32:53,360 --> 00:32:57,600
That's the moment that an assault happened, a tortious assault.

596
00:32:57,600 --> 00:33:02,000
And even if he doesn't hit him, even if he misses, there is some suit available for that,

597
00:33:02,000 --> 00:33:04,320
for that moment of feeling like this is coming.

598
00:33:04,880 --> 00:33:07,120
And then there's the slap itself, the physical contact.

599
00:33:08,160 --> 00:33:09,680
Both of those are actionable.

600
00:33:09,680 --> 00:33:13,440
Both of those definitely give rise to a claim of liability.

601
00:33:14,320 --> 00:33:19,440
We frequently get calls from prospective clients who have been physically battered or

602
00:33:19,440 --> 00:33:20,400
physically assaulted.

603
00:33:21,200 --> 00:33:24,640
And we're left telling them all the time, look, you've got a case, but unless the person

604
00:33:24,640 --> 00:33:28,800
who hit you is independently wealthy, there's no insurance company that's going to cover

605
00:33:28,800 --> 00:33:29,440
this slap.

606
00:33:31,280 --> 00:33:32,800
I don't think you can sue the Oscars.

607
00:33:32,800 --> 00:33:34,320
I don't think the security was lax.

608
00:33:34,320 --> 00:33:40,080
I don't think the Oscars are required to predict that when a star the caliber of Will Smith

609
00:33:40,080 --> 00:33:44,320
approaches the stage, the thing he's going to do is engage in a physically violent act.

610
00:33:45,760 --> 00:33:48,400
But you don't need to make a case against the Oscars.

611
00:33:48,400 --> 00:33:53,360
Will Smith actually has enough in his bank account that you can sue him independently here.

612
00:33:53,360 --> 00:33:55,360
Well, let's break this down a little bit.

613
00:33:55,360 --> 00:34:01,520
So 99 out of 100 times, if somebody calls you and says that they got slapped, you're

614
00:34:01,520 --> 00:34:03,520
not going to tell them they have a personal injury case.

615
00:34:03,520 --> 00:34:06,160
I mean, in theory, a tort happened.

616
00:34:06,160 --> 00:34:07,120
Somebody was wrong.

617
00:34:07,600 --> 00:34:09,360
I'm curious if they're hurt.

618
00:34:09,360 --> 00:34:11,840
If they're physically injured, I might consider it.

619
00:34:11,840 --> 00:34:17,040
And normally, if they're not physically injured, I'm telling them there's just you have a case,

620
00:34:17,040 --> 00:34:18,000
but it's a small case.

621
00:34:18,000 --> 00:34:20,320
It's like bringing a lawsuit for a fender bender.

622
00:34:20,320 --> 00:34:21,360
It doesn't make sense.

623
00:34:21,360 --> 00:34:26,480
Yeah, well, let's make our argument to the jurors because my argument on liability is

624
00:34:26,480 --> 00:34:32,080
pretty clear that the law does not allow us to go up to strangers and hit them, that we all have

625
00:34:32,640 --> 00:34:38,560
a sense of privacy and personal space, and we're not allowed to cause harm to somebody.

626
00:34:39,120 --> 00:34:41,200
And then the question is, what is the case worth?

627
00:34:41,200 --> 00:34:46,480
And I want to try to convince these interesting jurors who seem to be motivated by

628
00:34:46,480 --> 00:34:50,480
why it happened or protecting people in the future.

629
00:34:52,480 --> 00:34:56,000
But we talked a little bit about physical and emotional, right?

630
00:34:56,000 --> 00:35:00,080
The physical injury in this case wasn't severe that we know of.

631
00:35:00,800 --> 00:35:06,160
So why should these jurors award Chris Rock money if he wasn't physically hurt?

632
00:35:06,720 --> 00:35:07,920
Two things there.

633
00:35:07,920 --> 00:35:14,480
In all of our cases, when you look at the way that the law talks about compensation for injuries,

634
00:35:14,480 --> 00:35:19,760
included in your compensation is embarrassment and humiliation that you were caused.

635
00:35:19,760 --> 00:35:23,840
That is a specifically legally compensable category of damages.

636
00:35:24,560 --> 00:35:29,600
And in most of our cases, when you're trying to figure out what the embarrassment or humiliation

637
00:35:29,600 --> 00:35:31,600
is, it's, look, do I have scars, right?

638
00:35:31,600 --> 00:35:36,080
Do other people who see me, you know, see my scar and I feel embarrassed?

639
00:35:36,080 --> 00:35:40,320
Very rarely is someone injured on such a public stage.

640
00:35:40,320 --> 00:35:44,640
One thing I would like to point out that is super relevant here in my mind is the fact

641
00:35:44,640 --> 00:35:45,680
that it was a slap.

642
00:35:45,680 --> 00:35:48,240
This wasn't a punch, right?

643
00:35:48,240 --> 00:35:52,240
If he's trying to really hurt you, he's probably going to punch him or, you know, this isn't

644
00:35:52,240 --> 00:35:54,240
like an MMA palm strike.

645
00:35:55,600 --> 00:35:56,800
This is a slap.

646
00:35:56,800 --> 00:35:59,840
This is intended as an act of disrespect.

647
00:35:59,840 --> 00:36:02,560
It's not quite the same as spitting on someone.

648
00:36:02,560 --> 00:36:06,880
It lives in the ground between spitting on someone and punching someone where it does

649
00:36:06,880 --> 00:36:12,880
a little more physical harm than spitting, but is not is fundamentally an act about embarrassing

650
00:36:12,880 --> 00:36:16,880
Chris Rock, not fundamentally an act about injuring him physically.

651
00:36:16,880 --> 00:36:18,080
And that's a good point.

652
00:36:18,080 --> 00:36:18,880
I like that one.

653
00:36:18,880 --> 00:36:21,600
I mean, and it has desired effect, right?

654
00:36:22,480 --> 00:36:27,360
You're talking about a guy who went from being, you know, whose career biography is look at

655
00:36:27,360 --> 00:36:29,200
all these movies and these stand up specials.

656
00:36:29,200 --> 00:36:30,720
He was the funniest man on earth.

657
00:36:30,720 --> 00:36:34,800
There's a reason he was still there, you know, presenting awards at the Oscars.

658
00:36:34,800 --> 00:36:37,040
Right? That's how big a star he is.

659
00:36:37,040 --> 00:36:43,040
And now being publicly slapped in front of all of these people is part of the first paragraph

660
00:36:43,040 --> 00:36:45,520
of his, you know, lifetime biography.

661
00:36:46,000 --> 00:36:46,960
That matters.

662
00:36:46,960 --> 00:36:51,040
That is a complete change in the way society views and remembers Chris Rock.

663
00:36:52,080 --> 00:36:57,440
I have no idea how many millions of dollars that kind of change in your legacy is worth,

664
00:36:57,440 --> 00:37:01,600
what it's worth for that many people to have seen one of the most embarrassing and humiliating

665
00:37:01,600 --> 00:37:05,040
moments of your life and her right life in front of them.

666
00:37:05,040 --> 00:37:11,280
You know, at some point at these dollar values with these levels of fame, it's all monopoly money.

667
00:37:11,280 --> 00:37:16,320
How much do you have to how much is that worth comparing one to the other?

668
00:37:16,320 --> 00:37:16,880
You know?

669
00:37:16,880 --> 00:37:17,920
Yeah, I want to bring the jurors in.

670
00:37:17,920 --> 00:37:20,640
I also want to touch base on how we would defend Will Smith.

671
00:37:20,640 --> 00:37:26,880
But what I would say to our jurors is that the law will tell you that you must compensate

672
00:37:26,880 --> 00:37:33,440
them fairly for any and all embarrassment, stress, anxiety.

673
00:37:33,440 --> 00:37:36,480
And when you look, I wouldn't be surprised.

674
00:37:36,480 --> 00:37:38,160
Hopefully, Chris Rock lives a long life.

675
00:37:38,160 --> 00:37:42,560
But when we look back on his life, 40 or 50 years from now, people are going to remember

676
00:37:42,560 --> 00:37:45,840
that Will Smith slapped the shit out of Chris Rock.

677
00:37:45,840 --> 00:37:48,640
I mean, you use the word legacy.

678
00:37:48,640 --> 00:37:55,680
If I'm arguing to a jury, you've permanently and irreparably damaged the world.

679
00:37:55,680 --> 00:38:01,200
Damage the reputation and legacy of Chris Rock forever, because there are people that

680
00:38:01,200 --> 00:38:03,760
are going to look at it and think less of that.

681
00:38:03,760 --> 00:38:07,760
He is less of a man because he got slapped on stage in front of millions of people.

682
00:38:07,760 --> 00:38:11,200
And to put a dollar value on that, you know, one of the things I was thinking about telling

683
00:38:11,200 --> 00:38:18,800
Chris if he does call me is take a year off, because if we can show a wage loss that you

684
00:38:18,800 --> 00:38:23,360
were unable to work or it affected your ability to work in any way, I mean, you're looking

685
00:38:23,360 --> 00:38:25,360
at a couple hundred million dollars, in my opinion.

686
00:38:25,360 --> 00:38:26,960
Disagree? You're shaking your head.

687
00:38:26,960 --> 00:38:32,400
Yeah. I mean, the thing I'm disagreeing with here is essentially telling the podcast audience

688
00:38:32,400 --> 00:38:36,720
that you would be suggesting that someone cease working for the purposes of driving

689
00:38:36,720 --> 00:38:37,600
up their wage claim.

690
00:38:39,120 --> 00:38:40,240
I probably wouldn't.

691
00:38:40,240 --> 00:38:44,880
I would certainly advise them that if you do or if you are unable to work for any reason,

692
00:38:44,880 --> 00:38:47,280
that it will be a recognizable claim.

693
00:38:47,280 --> 00:38:47,760
Let's switch.

694
00:38:47,760 --> 00:38:49,040
Let's switch hats for a second.

695
00:38:50,160 --> 00:38:52,080
Now, Will Smith is calling you.

696
00:38:52,080 --> 00:38:53,840
And he said, I made a mistake.

697
00:38:53,840 --> 00:38:55,840
I slapped Chris Rock and I'm getting sued.

698
00:38:56,560 --> 00:39:03,120
What arguments are you making to our jurors as to either defend him or limit exposure

699
00:39:03,120 --> 00:39:04,320
for Will Smith?

700
00:39:04,320 --> 00:39:08,400
Well, the most obvious way to try to limit exposure is just to point out that you didn't

701
00:39:08,400 --> 00:39:09,520
do any physical harm.

702
00:39:10,240 --> 00:39:16,400
And then otherwise, your best defense is simply to point out the act of provocation, right?

703
00:39:17,680 --> 00:39:18,560
That you were there.

704
00:39:18,560 --> 00:39:23,600
You were taking this action because your wife's serious medical condition was now being described.

705
00:39:23,600 --> 00:39:25,840
You know, was the butt of Chris Rock's joke.

706
00:39:26,880 --> 00:39:31,440
And in the moment, you were overwhelmed by the desire to stop that because that's kind

707
00:39:31,440 --> 00:39:34,560
of verbal abuse of your wife and a sore subject.

708
00:39:34,560 --> 00:39:39,360
It's obviously not a good legal defense, right?

709
00:39:39,360 --> 00:39:46,000
Those words do not rise to the level of quote unquote fighting words where they so outrage

710
00:39:46,000 --> 00:39:49,600
you that any action you take afterwards, you're not legally culpable for.

711
00:39:49,600 --> 00:39:55,920
But as we saw with the other cases we talked about, a big part of the way that that lay

712
00:39:55,920 --> 00:40:00,960
people jurors, anyone associates or comes up with a value for a case is based upon how

713
00:40:00,960 --> 00:40:02,640
outrageous they think the action is.

714
00:40:03,200 --> 00:40:08,560
So the best defense he's got is to minimize the outrage by trying to put himself in the

715
00:40:08,560 --> 00:40:15,360
position of, you know, a husband who's, you know, who has seen his wife hurt in this way

716
00:40:15,360 --> 00:40:16,880
by having this brought out in public.

717
00:40:16,880 --> 00:40:22,320
And the less outrageous that looks, the better it is.

718
00:40:22,320 --> 00:40:23,920
Yeah, I think that's a good strategy.

719
00:40:23,920 --> 00:40:28,160
I mean, I think I'm telling Will, I think I'm telling a jury on behalf of Will Smith

720
00:40:28,880 --> 00:40:32,400
that, okay, he had a major brain fart here.

721
00:40:32,400 --> 00:40:33,280
All right.

722
00:40:33,280 --> 00:40:37,120
Nobody is saying he didn't make an enormous mistake.

723
00:40:37,120 --> 00:40:41,280
And you got to sort of fall on the sword first that yes, we're wrong.

724
00:40:41,280 --> 00:40:50,480
But your job as a juror is only to award fair compensation for the actual injuries which

725
00:40:50,480 --> 00:40:51,680
were suffered.

726
00:40:51,680 --> 00:40:57,120
And the injuries and the physical injuries are just a bruise.

727
00:40:57,120 --> 00:40:59,120
You can't let's not get crazy here.

728
00:40:59,120 --> 00:41:00,240
Let's not get sue happy.

729
00:41:00,240 --> 00:41:00,720
Your thoughts?

730
00:41:01,840 --> 00:41:05,200
Well, yeah, the other thing is, and it's going to depend on the way that the facts are

731
00:41:05,200 --> 00:41:05,840
developed here.

732
00:41:07,600 --> 00:41:10,560
You have to soft sell this if you're representing Will Smith.

733
00:41:10,560 --> 00:41:10,960
That's right.

734
00:41:10,960 --> 00:41:11,520
That's right.

735
00:41:11,520 --> 00:41:17,120
But what you can try to soft sell is look at the big boost to Chris Rock's Q rating.

736
00:41:18,720 --> 00:41:22,400
Now look, he didn't receive the benefit from that yet, right?

737
00:41:22,400 --> 00:41:26,480
The prices for his stand up shows in the weeks that followed were through the roof, but that

738
00:41:26,480 --> 00:41:28,320
was all secondary market stuff.

739
00:41:28,320 --> 00:41:30,320
He doesn't pocket that gain.

740
00:41:30,320 --> 00:41:34,560
But eventually, if you're really getting to the point where you're having a trial and

741
00:41:34,560 --> 00:41:39,360
he's putting on his economic losses, you get to go through his books and say, you sold

742
00:41:39,360 --> 00:41:44,720
more seats for more money than the next five years of comedy shows that you did because

743
00:41:44,720 --> 00:41:45,760
of this act.

744
00:41:45,760 --> 00:41:51,360
And now you can't take credit for it, but you have to use economic experts to talk about

745
00:41:51,360 --> 00:41:53,200
that and bring that dollar figure down.

746
00:41:53,200 --> 00:41:53,840
Yeah.

747
00:41:53,840 --> 00:41:57,760
Also, just to harp on it a little bit before we bring the jurors in, if I'm representing

748
00:41:57,760 --> 00:42:05,120
Will Smith, you know, when you have a wife that has a medical condition, it's not that

749
00:42:05,120 --> 00:42:10,480
outrageous to be protective of her and nobody has any idea what we've been dealing with

750
00:42:10,480 --> 00:42:13,840
at home concerning this or the stress and anxiety.

751
00:42:13,840 --> 00:42:20,080
And unless you know what our family has gone through and how this has affected her, I wasn't

752
00:42:20,080 --> 00:42:23,600
even thinking at that point because all I was doing was trying to protect her.

753
00:42:23,600 --> 00:42:24,400
I made a mistake.

754
00:42:25,600 --> 00:42:27,520
But now let me put my other hat on.

755
00:42:27,520 --> 00:42:29,520
That's fine, Mr. Smith's attorney.

756
00:42:29,520 --> 00:42:30,960
How many hats do you have?

757
00:42:30,960 --> 00:42:33,760
Oh, well, don't worry about that.

758
00:42:33,760 --> 00:42:35,760
Mr. Will Smith's attorney.

759
00:42:35,760 --> 00:42:36,000
Okay.

760
00:42:38,160 --> 00:42:44,240
The other argument I could make and looking at it, though, is when you do something outrageous

761
00:42:44,240 --> 00:42:48,880
or extreme, the law allows for what's called punitive damages.

762
00:42:48,880 --> 00:42:55,440
And the point of punitive damages is to deter this kind of conduct in the future.

763
00:42:55,440 --> 00:42:57,520
And I guess I'm going back to representing Chris Rock.

764
00:42:57,520 --> 00:43:02,800
But what I would say when they when Will Smith's lawyers say he wasn't that hurt, she was sick.

765
00:43:02,800 --> 00:43:03,920
He was protecting her.

766
00:43:03,920 --> 00:43:08,800
I would say yes, but punitive damages are warranted because in a civilized society,

767
00:43:08,800 --> 00:43:10,720
we cannot have this kind of conduct.

768
00:43:10,720 --> 00:43:14,160
And when you get into punitive damages, and this is where it gets interesting,

769
00:43:14,160 --> 00:43:19,520
you can look at the net worth of the actor or defendant who caused the harm.

770
00:43:20,240 --> 00:43:23,600
So here you have Will Smith, who's worth hundreds of millions of dollars.

771
00:43:24,960 --> 00:43:30,640
But then again, remember, you've got to convince only a couple jurors to agree with you.

772
00:43:30,640 --> 00:43:34,400
It's not you don't get unanimous. But let's bring in the jurors.

773
00:43:34,400 --> 00:43:35,840
Let's hear what they have to say about this.

774
00:43:36,480 --> 00:43:40,320
Billy, Chris Rock case or no case?

775
00:43:40,320 --> 00:43:42,000
He has a case for sure.

776
00:43:43,600 --> 00:43:51,040
And just to be clear, I don't know, I haven't read this, but he may have injuries that we're

777
00:43:51,040 --> 00:43:51,680
not aware of.

778
00:43:51,680 --> 00:43:58,480
I know several years ago, there was an infamous slap that happened on TV, not as big of a

779
00:43:58,480 --> 00:44:01,040
audience, but it was 2020.

780
00:44:01,680 --> 00:44:05,280
Years ago, they were doing a piece on wrestling and they had Dr. David Schultz.

781
00:44:06,160 --> 00:44:09,920
And he slapped the shit out of John Stossel.

782
00:44:10,960 --> 00:44:18,080
Yeah, John Stossel sued WWF and the wrestler and had hearing damage.

783
00:44:18,560 --> 00:44:22,560
Right. I believe he had permanent hearing damage to that ear.

784
00:44:22,560 --> 00:44:26,560
So he could have, you know, there could be injuries we're not sure of.

785
00:44:26,560 --> 00:44:32,320
I do think the fact that he just that is permanently in his obit now, like that, that

786
00:44:32,320 --> 00:44:36,320
what we and we're going to be seeing that for years and years and years.

787
00:44:36,320 --> 00:44:37,440
They're going to be playing that moment.

788
00:44:38,160 --> 00:44:42,800
Just makes the case that I mean, the sky's the limit.

789
00:44:42,800 --> 00:44:50,160
I do believe as this is such a high profile case as someone on the juror, the only chance,

790
00:44:51,200 --> 00:44:53,680
I think for Will, if you were defending Will Smith,

791
00:44:53,680 --> 00:44:57,360
well, first there's physical video evidence of him laughing at the joke.

792
00:44:57,360 --> 00:45:02,800
So that's kind of hard to say he was in range, but I do think that Chris Rock has kind of gone,

793
00:45:03,760 --> 00:45:08,560
has played his cards exactly how he needs to, but he has made the comment like, I'm only

794
00:45:08,560 --> 00:45:09,360
talking about it.

795
00:45:10,240 --> 00:45:14,000
So he's looking for like a, you know, but I mean, you can't hold that against them.

796
00:45:14,000 --> 00:45:17,120
I just think that the evidence is overwhelming.

797
00:45:18,000 --> 00:45:22,480
Now, whether he would choose to do that because of bad PR, like suing another athlete,

798
00:45:22,480 --> 00:45:26,160
suing another actor, I don't know, but he definitely would have a case.

799
00:45:26,640 --> 00:45:27,520
How do you value it?

800
00:45:28,080 --> 00:45:30,960
This is where I have a big weak spot.

801
00:45:30,960 --> 00:45:31,920
I have no idea.

802
00:45:31,920 --> 00:45:35,360
Like I think you've identified with me as a juror.

803
00:45:35,360 --> 00:45:38,160
I literally have no idea how to value it.

804
00:45:38,160 --> 00:45:44,240
I just think it would be astronomical because this is like that guy getting dunked on.

805
00:45:46,000 --> 00:45:50,640
You know, for life, like on the Michael Jordan poster, you know, or you're on the front cover

806
00:45:50,640 --> 00:45:53,760
of sports illustrated, getting dunked on, it's going to follow you.

807
00:45:53,760 --> 00:45:55,840
So I think that number sky's the limit.

808
00:45:55,840 --> 00:45:57,200
I would say millions.

809
00:45:58,400 --> 00:45:59,120
I need a number.

810
00:45:59,120 --> 00:45:59,920
You're on a juror.

811
00:45:59,920 --> 00:46:01,760
You can't leave that jury box without a number.

812
00:46:02,640 --> 00:46:04,240
God, so uncomfortable.

813
00:46:04,240 --> 00:46:04,720
It's hard.

814
00:46:04,720 --> 00:46:05,760
He's already a millionaire.

815
00:46:05,760 --> 00:46:11,360
That's hard to separate, but I'm going to say you'd have to put a price tag on what's going to

816
00:46:11,360 --> 00:46:12,640
potentially cost them.

817
00:46:12,640 --> 00:46:15,200
And we don't know if he has any kind of post-traumatic stress.

818
00:46:15,200 --> 00:46:20,400
If he's afraid to go up on stage, which clearly isn't, but I'm going to say,

819
00:46:20,400 --> 00:46:24,800
let's say I'm going to award him royalties to every one of Will Smith's movies.

820
00:46:24,800 --> 00:46:31,120
Now I'm going to say it's going to be, let's say $25 million.

821
00:46:32,720 --> 00:46:33,120
All right.

822
00:46:33,120 --> 00:46:33,920
Thank you, Billy.

823
00:46:33,920 --> 00:46:34,480
Good.

824
00:46:34,480 --> 00:46:35,520
Ronnie, you with us still?

825
00:46:36,400 --> 00:46:40,320
I wasn't aware that you could sue based on someone's net worth.

826
00:46:40,320 --> 00:46:45,360
So with that said, that, you know, that takes this award into the stratosphere, right?

827
00:46:46,800 --> 00:46:48,240
It's an egregious act.

828
00:46:48,240 --> 00:46:49,760
It's an embarrassing act.

829
00:46:49,760 --> 00:46:53,920
I mean, even though he wasn't injured and that's usually what I hone in on, like how injured is

830
00:46:53,920 --> 00:46:54,640
this person?

831
00:46:54,640 --> 00:46:55,760
How long is it going to be with them?

832
00:46:55,760 --> 00:46:58,560
Well, that embarrassment is going to be with them forever, right?

833
00:46:58,560 --> 00:47:03,440
This whole career, they're elitist Hollywood actors and they're both worth tens of millions

834
00:47:03,440 --> 00:47:03,920
of dollars.

835
00:47:03,920 --> 00:47:05,520
Can we just move on from it?

836
00:47:05,520 --> 00:47:06,160
Right.

837
00:47:06,160 --> 00:47:12,160
I have that kind of thing going through the back of my mind, but as a juror and recognizing

838
00:47:12,160 --> 00:47:16,320
that you could sue based on someone's net worth, yeah, this guy's going to get paid.

839
00:47:16,320 --> 00:47:17,600
I have 25 million.

840
00:47:17,600 --> 00:47:24,160
It's in the tens of millions of dollars and consulting with my other 11 jurists, I can be

841
00:47:24,160 --> 00:47:25,600
convinced to go even higher.

842
00:47:26,160 --> 00:47:26,480
All right.

843
00:47:26,480 --> 00:47:28,320
It sounds like we have a consensus on that.

844
00:47:28,960 --> 00:47:33,680
You know, Bill, what's amazing to me is you look at these cases we've talked about today

845
00:47:34,320 --> 00:47:36,400
and Billy, Ronnie, thank you so much.

846
00:47:36,400 --> 00:47:43,200
I mean, you guys are great, but you look at how regular jurors value cases and the

847
00:47:43,200 --> 00:47:46,240
highest cases for the least injury in my opinion, potentially.

848
00:47:46,240 --> 00:47:50,960
I mean, the least physical harm at least they're ready to give Chris Rock $25 million.

849
00:47:51,520 --> 00:47:54,640
They're going to give the little boy who got hit by a baseball and has brain injuries as a

850
00:47:54,640 --> 00:47:57,440
six-year-old $150,000.

851
00:47:57,440 --> 00:48:00,160
Isn't that the chaos of this system?

852
00:48:00,720 --> 00:48:01,280
Well, yeah.

853
00:48:01,280 --> 00:48:06,640
And the whole system asks jurors to do a thing that we as human beings, one, have no

854
00:48:06,640 --> 00:48:07,840
experience in doing, right?

855
00:48:08,560 --> 00:48:12,480
We're trying to do some sort of monetary conversion between injuries and dollars.

856
00:48:13,120 --> 00:48:14,640
Nobody knows how to do that.

857
00:48:14,640 --> 00:48:17,680
That's a nonsensical ask.

858
00:48:17,680 --> 00:48:23,680
And then the second thing we ask jurors to do is to kind of block out things that they know

859
00:48:23,680 --> 00:48:27,920
and that they've heard and that we know and that we've heard and kind of isolate the issue.

860
00:48:27,920 --> 00:48:33,760
So in theory, you're telling a juror once you've decided that the plaintiff is liable over that

861
00:48:34,640 --> 00:48:41,440
50.1% mark, then the only question that matters, you now don't think about how bad the action was

862
00:48:41,440 --> 00:48:41,840
anymore.

863
00:48:41,840 --> 00:48:44,000
The only thing that matters is assessing the injury.

864
00:48:44,000 --> 00:48:50,320
And we want the jury to think about who's at fault in complete isolation in a vacuum from how bad

865
00:48:50,320 --> 00:48:51,200
the injuries are.

866
00:48:51,200 --> 00:48:54,240
And as we've seen, that is not anyone's natural instinct.

867
00:48:54,240 --> 00:49:01,120
Everyone's natural instinct is to consider how egregious the wrongdoing is in deciding how to

868
00:49:01,120 --> 00:49:03,120
put dollars and cents on it.

869
00:49:03,760 --> 00:49:09,840
Our jury system asks them, at least implicitly, often explicitly, to shut that part of their

870
00:49:09,840 --> 00:49:13,280
brain off and do a totally different and unnatural thing.

871
00:49:13,280 --> 00:49:14,480
I don't know that they do it.

872
00:49:14,480 --> 00:49:19,760
Well, it comes back to what you said earlier, too, where you talked originally about valuing the

873
00:49:19,760 --> 00:49:22,400
case versus valuing the injuries.

874
00:49:22,400 --> 00:49:28,720
And that can go both ways where you might have a severe injury in a bad case, or you could have a

875
00:49:28,720 --> 00:49:35,280
mild physical injury, but a really good case because what jurors do is they consider the totality

876
00:49:35,280 --> 00:49:39,120
of the circumstances, both on liability and damages and combine them.

877
00:49:39,120 --> 00:49:42,400
And you and I have been doing this for a long time.

878
00:49:42,400 --> 00:49:43,680
You never know.

879
00:49:43,680 --> 00:49:47,040
I don't care who you are, how many jury trials you had, what judge you are.

880
00:49:47,040 --> 00:49:51,360
You never know what a jury is going to do because they will pick up things either on the liability

881
00:49:51,360 --> 00:49:55,120
or the damage end that could sway the number drastically either way.

882
00:49:56,160 --> 00:49:57,920
Thanks to our guests for joining us today.

883
00:49:57,920 --> 00:49:59,760
Thanks to everyone here who listened.

884
00:49:59,760 --> 00:50:02,080
This has been I strenuously object.

885
00:50:02,080 --> 00:50:05,520
I believe this is an episode during which I've not objected once.

886
00:50:06,160 --> 00:50:07,600
Be that as it may.

887
00:50:07,600 --> 00:50:12,400
Be that as it may. This is our first, but hopefully not our last case or no case.

888
00:50:12,400 --> 00:50:13,920
Hope you guys enjoyed the format.

889
00:50:14,880 --> 00:50:18,560
That should about do it for this episode of I strenuously object.

890
00:50:19,440 --> 00:50:22,480
Hopefully you learned something or had a few laughs at least,

891
00:50:22,480 --> 00:50:25,440
got some value of some kind from our time together.

892
00:50:25,440 --> 00:50:28,480
If so, please subscribe, rate and review us.

893
00:50:28,480 --> 00:50:30,720
Tell your friends to check out this podcast.

894
00:50:30,720 --> 00:50:31,840
It's the only way it can grow.

895
00:50:32,480 --> 00:50:37,120
If you have questions for our mailing it in segment or other feedback about the podcast,

896
00:50:37,120 --> 00:50:41,200
email us at I object at PGH firm.com.

897
00:50:42,080 --> 00:50:43,520
Noah, anything from you?

898
00:50:43,520 --> 00:50:44,640
Hey, thanks Bill.

899
00:50:44,640 --> 00:50:47,680
For more information on personal injury questions in Pennsylvania,

900
00:50:47,680 --> 00:50:50,880
visit our website at PGH firm.com.

901
00:50:50,880 --> 00:50:56,560
Click on the personal injury section and answer questions such as do I have a personal injury case?

902
00:50:56,560 --> 00:50:58,320
How much is my case worth?

903
00:50:58,320 --> 00:51:01,440
And which personal injury attorney should I choose?

904
00:51:01,440 --> 00:51:03,280
PGH firm.com.

905
00:51:03,920 --> 00:51:05,280
Thanks and have a great day.

906
00:51:05,280 --> 00:51:10,480
Until next time, some insightful parting legal advice.

907
00:51:11,920 --> 00:51:18,560
Be excellent to each other and party on dudes.

908
00:51:18,560 --> 00:51:20,400
All right, counselor, are we adjourned?

909
00:51:21,200 --> 00:51:22,640
We are adjourned.

910
00:51:22,640 --> 00:51:24,400
Stay classy, San Diego.

911
00:51:25,280 --> 00:51:27,760
We want to hear from you, our listeners.

912
00:51:27,760 --> 00:51:31,920
You can email us your questions, comments and suggestions for future episodes

913
00:51:31,920 --> 00:51:38,800
at I object at PGH firm.com or DM us on Instagram and Facebook.

914
00:51:38,800 --> 00:52:02,480
Follow us at Flaherty Fardo on Instagram or Flaherty Fardo Rogel and Amick on Facebook.

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